Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

discussion of design changes / improvements / suggestions
LouisV
Posts: 316
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by LouisV » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:56 am

AlexOSD wrote:LouisV,

You've built my dream machine (nearly). I've been researching for the past few months the best DIY CNC and Shapeoko just hit the spot.
I live in Italy, so many parts are easy to find or purchase online, except for the electronics (despite Italy being the home of Arduino, it's still behind on availability).
I'm planning on expanding the Z axis as well so I can work on clay and wood blocks that will function as molds.
Would you be willing to share the plans you have from your work so far?
I'd love to adapt them to my future version, but I'm not really that well versed in CNCs, having so far just a good grasp on the mechanics of the thingamajig. :D

Awesome work, brother!
Sent you a PM :geek:

AlexOSD
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:53 pm

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by AlexOSD » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:05 pm

Can't reply yet =) And that was quick!

Well, it's a bit of a predicament: if I order a complete ShapeOko kit, I'll end up not using most of the kit's parts, since the motors need upgrading, the spindle will have to be better and the profiles won't be the same. (found Mitsumi in Italy, woot!)

The closest machine (not by a mile) I had considered was a Wabeco 1410, but as usual, it's frustrating to stick to the proposed axis lengths.

I think I could do well with a parts list (tall order, I know). (EDIT: I know there's a bill of materials for the kit, I'm talking about your mod so I can replace them without waste)
From there I'll try to find everything, ordering the supports from Shapeoko and 3D printing the odd part or having it milled/cut around here.

cvoinescu
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Location: Camberley, UK
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Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by cvoinescu » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:33 pm

Shameless plug: Alex, I don't have Shapeoko 2 parts, but I can supply any parts of an eShapeoko kit (except MakerSlide, which is still about a week out), so you can pay only for what you need. I'm pretty sure we can figure out the electronics, too.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

AlexOSD
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:53 pm

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by AlexOSD » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:36 am

I like where you're heading. :)

Apart from dimensions and NEMA 23, do you know what else is different in Shapeoko/eShapeoko from Shapeoko 2?

We could head for a eShapeoko2 XL design... :)

EDIT: Awesome, you're the Amber Spyglass guy! Fantastic, I checked the site and I was wondering when the MakerSlide would be arriving, I know the pain of importing as a person (shipped an engine and gearbox from Texas), can't imagine the paperwork for properly doing it as a company. I registered a company in the UK in september - still waiting for my VAT number.

That's definitely the combination I was hoping for: LouisV with the plans and MakerSlide Europe with the equipment. Shapeoko XL is a go! :D

LouisV
Posts: 316
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by LouisV » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:24 pm

AlexOSD wrote:I like where you're heading. :)

Apart from dimensions and NEMA 23, do you know what else is different in Shapeoko/eShapeoko from Shapeoko 2?

We could head for a eShapeoko2 XL design... :)

EDIT: Awesome, you're the Amber Spyglass guy! Fantastic, I checked the site and I was wondering when the MakerSlide would be arriving, I know the pain of importing as a person (shipped an engine and gearbox from Texas), can't imagine the paperwork for properly doing it as a company. I registered a company in the UK in september - still waiting for my VAT number.

That's definitely the combination I was hoping for: LouisV with the plans and MakerSlide Europe with the equipment. Shapeoko XL is a go! :D
Right on. Just let me know, send me a PM if you want or you can reply here. I'll be checking the forums more often from now on. :)

I'm actually thinking about upgrading my current Shapeoko by making custom motor mount plates and end plates. I'm thinking of ditching makerslide altogether and mount steel v-rail to bigger extrusions (like 20x80mm). This would also allow me to use steel v-wheels. The reason I'm thinking about doing this is so I can cut my current work times in half by upgrading from a 800w spindle to a 1.5kw as well as going from 166oz NEMA 23 to 276oz NEMA 23 stepper motors. I'm currently cutting aluminum at .025" depth of cuts at 20 IPM which is fine, but I'd want to be able to cut at .04" - .05" depth of cuts at 30-35 IPM. I own a small business so time is money and if I can double my current production in a given day then that would help me out a lot.

samc99us
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by samc99us » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:36 pm

LouisV,

What spindle speed are you running with your 0.025" deep cuts @ 20 IPM, and what tool are you using? Are you cutting wet or dry?

Interesting idea. I've had very similar thoughts, and wrote a lot in the general discussion thread on steel rail before building my current machine. I think the best plan is to use existing steel v-rail (grainger carries VRD1 rail that is compatible with the steel v-wheels openbuilds carries) and mount it to Misumi rail using an aluminum adapter plate milled on an existing Shapeoko. I think the largest benefit would be on the x and z-axis. I will likely upgrade my z-axis first, but the x may happen at the same time as I need a new carriage plate to support a wider z-axis (I have a piece of 8020 ready to go). I really think there are some other options though:

1) Mill beefier end plates out of 1/4" aluminum, and use 8x v-wheels instead of 4x on the x and y-axis. You could use the same makerslide and save some hassle
2) Upgrade to openbuilds delrin v-wheels; they are beefier than the inventables v-wheels, and you can keep the bearings from the existing wheels. This is a mere $1.50 per wheel.
3) If these upgrades are insufficient, you can move to steel v-rail. At least that is what I would do to save the $$ on the steel if it turns out to be unnecessary.

Some other interesting facts: We mill at 0.05" depths, 30 IPM in 6061-T6 on a Hurco mill (auto toolchanger, 20HP spindle, servo control, etc.). Of course we can swing bigger bits on this mill, 1/2" or so, but increasing the speed isn't really much of an option since it's a mill not a router. For 2D work, a waterjet (with abrasives) is by far faster than a mill. It would be really neat to see a Shapeoko 2 converted to a waterjet!! The heads are probably too expensive :(
Modified Shapeoko 2: 1500mm fully supported y-axis, 1000 mm 4060 x-axis, ACME Belt Drive Z-axis, Dewalt DNP611, full aluminum t-slot table, 4x NEMA23 180 oz/in stepper motors driven by a G540

LouisV
Posts: 316
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by LouisV » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:50 pm

samc99us wrote:LouisV,

What spindle speed are you running with your 0.025" deep cuts @ 20 IPM, and what tool are you using? Are you cutting wet or dry?

Interesting idea. I've had very similar thoughts, and wrote a lot in the general discussion thread on steel rail before building my current machine. I think the best plan is to use existing steel v-rail (grainger carries VRD1 rail that is compatible with the steel v-wheels openbuilds carries) and mount it to Misumi rail using an aluminum adapter plate milled on an existing Shapeoko. I think the largest benefit would be on the x and z-axis. I will likely upgrade my z-axis first, but the x may happen at the same time as I need a new carriage plate to support a wider z-axis (I have a piece of 8020 ready to go). I really think there are some other options though:

1) Mill beefier end plates out of 1/4" aluminum, and use 8x v-wheels instead of 4x on the x and y-axis. You could use the same makerslide and save some hassle
2) Upgrade to openbuilds delrin v-wheels; they are beefier than the inventables v-wheels, and you can keep the bearings from the existing wheels. This is a mere $1.50 per wheel.
3) If these upgrades are insufficient, you can move to steel v-rail. At least that is what I would do to save the $$ on the steel if it turns out to be unnecessary.

Some other interesting facts: We mill at 0.05" depths, 30 IPM in 6061-T6 on a Hurco mill (auto toolchanger, 20HP spindle, servo control, etc.). Of course we can swing bigger bits on this mill, 1/2" or so, but increasing the speed isn't really much of an option since it's a mill not a router. For 2D work, a waterjet (with abrasives) is by far faster than a mill. It would be really neat to see a Shapeoko 2 converted to a waterjet!! The heads are probably too expensive :(
Hey samc99us,

How's it going? :)

I'm running at 23,500 RPM, I saw no benefit cutting at a lower RPM so I keep the speed near the max. As far as what tool I'm using it all depends on what part I'm making, but it's either a standard 2-flute end mill, a 3-flute variable helix end mill, or a straight flute end mill, all of which have ZRN or TICN coating. They are also either 1/16" or 1/8" in cutting diameter (though I do have 1/4" versions with a 1/4" ER11 collet handy incase I ever need it).

I cut "wet", I just use a little bit of WD-40 every 3 or 4 passes and it's good to go. I'm actually surprised at how well WD-40 works as a lubricant and coolant when it comes to cutting aluminum. But anyway I've also considered mounting a mini misting system to the Shapeoko and have it automated via Mach3, but that will probably happen later on, perhaps after I upgrade the machine again.

Pretty awesome that you're milling with a 20hp spindle. Though I'm sure it's more than capable of cutting at greater than .05" depths, my 1hp spindle can do half that, maybe even .03" at 20IPM if I want to push it hard. Speaking of pushing my machine hard, by pure accident I've actually been able to cut 22 gauge weld steel in a single pass at 7 IPM. It was smoking quite a bit but the machine was marching along without missing steps or jerking. I'll never do that again though, but it was cool to see the machine pushed to its limits.

I would love to own a water jet or even a laser CNC. It may not be too far fetched to convert the Shapeoko into either of those two machines, but as you mentioned it might be a little pricey. :shock:

danimal
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:53 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by danimal » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:04 am

I tried WD40, but it started smoking. Not terribly, but being that my machine is in my house as opposed to my garage I opted for water misting. It works well, except chip removal becomes less effective because the chips turn into clumps and my vacuum is just not tough enough to pick them up.

I am currently working on a closed eductor system as a water mister. Basically using a smaller high DP vacuum and collection chamber to push - pull the chips across the cutting surface while having the air discharge side mist water. It is still a work in progress, but it seems to be much better at removing chips, and when I get my needle valves for the water eductor I will be able to meter the water better. I am using one of the bucket lid shopvac knockoff, but I think that I am going to swap to the smallest wetvac that I can find and find a way to regulate the DP across the vacuum and regulate the discharge side to avoid too high of a discharge pressure.

Do you have problems with chip removal?
Shapeoko # 1458

RT0701C Spindle || dual y motor || x axis nema23 with custom carriage 1000mm length || z axis nema23 linear rail upgrade with 1/2-10 ACME

danimal
Posts: 332
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Location: Colorado

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by danimal » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:11 am

LouisV wrote: Speaking of pushing my machine hard, by pure accident I've actually been able to cut 22 gauge weld steel in a single pass at 7 IPM. It was smoking quite a bit but the machine was marching along without missing steps or jerking. I'll never do that again though, but it was cool to see the machine pushed to its limits.
I did about a .01" pass through the head of a drywall screw by mistake. I was milling HDPE so I was s little surprised when I looked up and saw sparks shooting out.
Shapeoko # 1458

RT0701C Spindle || dual y motor || x axis nema23 with custom carriage 1000mm length || z axis nema23 linear rail upgrade with 1/2-10 ACME

LouisV
Posts: 316
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Working on a custom Shapeoko 2

Post by LouisV » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:46 pm

danimal wrote:
LouisV wrote: Speaking of pushing my machine hard, by pure accident I've actually been able to cut 22 gauge weld steel in a single pass at 7 IPM. It was smoking quite a bit but the machine was marching along without missing steps or jerking. I'll never do that again though, but it was cool to see the machine pushed to its limits.
I did about a .01" pass through the head of a drywall screw by mistake. I was milling HDPE so I was s little surprised when I looked up and saw sparks shooting out.
Yeah that would be very surprising if I saw that :lol: One is certainly never bored when it comes to working with CNC machines.

I never meant to cut the weld steel in one pass. I had it programmed (at least I thought I did) to use .005" passes, well I left out a zero by mistake in Vcarve Pro so Mach3 read .05". Needless to say there was quite a bit smoke, I didn't hit the e-stop button right away because the machine itself wasn't jerking or having any obvious trouble cutting the steel, and I was also trying to figure out why it was smoking so much when the depth of cut was only .005" (or so I thought).

At least I know I can technically cut 22 gauge weld steel in a single pass :D I suppose I could also cut aluminum at .05" depth of cuts too if I slow the feed rate a bit, but that too might induce some unwanted smoke. :|

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