shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

discussion of design changes / improvements / suggestions
miketedeschi
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:41 pm

shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by miketedeschi » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:25 pm

Hello,

I realize there is a few topics already on expanding the shapeoko2, but they also include info about upgrading the spindle and motors, etc. I simply want to make my shapeoko 2 larger, and I am curious how big I can make it before I have to deal with reinforcing things. I say this because if I am going to have to reinforce things, I might as well upgrade everything. To what size could it be enlarged to by simply using longer (yet identical) extrusions, longer belts, and longer wires?

I assembled my shapeoko 2 on a fold up table, and noticed there was longer 1800mm makerslide available online. The table is about 6x3 feet, so naturally I wondered about turning the table itself into a larger shapeoko, which would be slightly smaller than 1800x900mm to use the whole table.

Would this be possible by purchasing:
(3) 1800mm makerslides (2 for a 1800mm X-axis, 1 cut in equal halves for a 900mm y-axis
(2) 20x40x1800mm extrusions (these would be bolted to the table also)

Any advice would be appreciated. If this footprint is too large for simply extending everything, please let me know how big you would go with this method.

Thanks!
Mike

WillAdams
Posts: 8489
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:11 pm
Location: Pennsylvania --- south of the Turnpike, East of US-15
Contact:

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by WillAdams » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:29 pm

That should work (if one also got longer belts, more wires and implemented a cable management system) --- ideally you'd want a torsion box or something similarly rigid for a frame, but I'm still developing a feel for how rigid the aluminum extrusions can be when bolted together --- there are some similarly sized machines though, so you can check the wiki and forums for what others have done.
William
(who is still bummed about 1.2M having gone out of stock before he ordered)
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

miketedeschi
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:41 pm

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by miketedeschi » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:04 pm

Awesome! I had intended to list longer belts, wires, and drag chain but was clearly too excited. I have never heard of a torsion box, but I will look into this. I'm hoping for the simplicity of a particle board pop-up table method (if I can get good results) because others will be able to obtain one easily, or already have one. This would also allow me to move this thing in a full size SUV, since the legs collapse.

I have also kicked around some ideas about dust management. I am possibly looking to neatly pipe some plastic flexible tubing from a small shop vac (maybe mounted under the table) to a dust shield sweeper on the spindle (i forget what it's called). Finally, I have also considered enclosing the whole thing inside a Plexiglas cube and creating a vacuum inside using a box fan & home ventilation filter combo for catching dust that may be harmful to breath in, especially if I cut a PCB, which is fiberglass.

I will document my findings for others, I just built this thing and I cant wait to take it apart.

Thanks for the input! -Mike

WillAdams
Posts: 8489
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:11 pm
Location: Pennsylvania --- south of the Turnpike, East of US-15
Contact:

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by WillAdams » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:27 pm

Probably the best option would be to directly build the torsion box at the size of the bed onto the table, using the table for the bottom layer of the torsion box --- you'll just need to use an adhesive which will adhere to the table top (I had a bit of a problem w/ that on my own recycled particle board table top --- had to scrape off a layer of sprayed lacquer)

It's going to be heavy when you put the whole thing together, and a concern when moving it is disturbing the alignment of the machine --- that said, I move my (much smaller) machine around pretty regularly.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

miketedeschi
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:41 pm

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by miketedeschi » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:07 am

WillAdams wrote:Probably the best option would be to directly build the torsion box at the size of the bed onto the table, using the table for the bottom layer of the torsion box --- you'll just need to use an adhesive which will adhere to the table top (I had a bit of a problem w/ that on my own recycled particle board table top --- had to scrape off a layer of sprayed lacquer)

It's going to be heavy when you put the whole thing together, and a concern when moving it is disturbing the alignment of the machine --- that said, I move my (much smaller) machine around pretty regularly.
I assume you mean something like this?
http://www.builderbuilt.com/?page_id=93

I used to build speaker boxes out of MDF back in the day, that's a good point about the weight. I won't be moving it around too much, but the ability to fit it in a suberban without removing the legs might be nice. Good call about the top layer on the table interfering with the glue. I think the bottom is naked particle board, maybe i can move the legs to the top coated side of the table. I could temporarily screw the top and bottom sheets together to pre-drill the holes through both sheets where the cross bracing will go? My theory is lining up the braced to predrill those might be way easier.

OR...

What about just buying a prefab door (wood or otherwise) without the frame, and stealing the legs from the popup table? Surely some doors must be rigid enough for this? Maybe even an exterior door with the metal shell, or the fireproof kind. hmmm.

ALuomala
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:30 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by ALuomala » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:23 am

Good call on the prefab door, although some of the interior ones are pretty just thin MDF (or similar) and cardboard baffling (you'll know what I mean if you saw the internet meme from Sochi Olympics with the athlete who was "trapped" in his bathroom due to faulty hardware (any Olympian who couldn't get out of a locked bathroom, thin door or not, shouldn't be at the Olympics, IMO: strong like bull, smart like tractor!!).

Going to one of the those recycled renovation building supply places (that accept old furniture, building supplies, etc) that donate those thing or the proceeds of the sale of them to Habit for Humanity, etc, would like have some cheap doors for sale (maybe get lucky and get a fairly solid one). Not sure if the bi-fold ones would be good (in terms of folding up to fit in vehicle), but may be worth investigating.

In a similar vein, there was a build log where someone bought 2 tables at auction and used the tops for their projects base. Having it (the top) in 2 or more sections may help with the portability issue, anyway.

Allan
ShapeOko2, serial ??
DW660 spindle;
Upgrades: 900mm X axis and 1000mm Y axis; ACME Z Axis; modified MDF wasteboard with t-slot
Primary usage: wood crafting (signs, plaques, and ultimately a CNC-made electric guitar)

WillAdams
Posts: 8489
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:11 pm
Location: Pennsylvania --- south of the Turnpike, East of US-15
Contact:

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by WillAdams » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:41 am

Yes, that's a good example of building a torsion box.

If you can get a door which has good torsion box construction, then you may be able to make use of it --- rather than separate the legs from the table and then have to go to the trouble of working up the structure to attach them to the door, my inclination would be to keep the table as is and clamp the torsion box frame and machine to the table when you're using it.

You're really getting up into the range of machines which are typically immovable, save for using good quality casters on a concrete floor or dis-assembling the machine to move it, so keeping it portable is going to be a neat trick (and feature).
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

samc99us
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by samc99us » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:28 pm

Using aluminum rail for the base, from Misumi, ($150 for free) is my recommendation. If you add an aluminum table to that, I'm confident you'll have a relatively rigid machine.

I'll probably be bolting mine to my 2x4Basics table, which has one sheet of plywood followed by a second sheet of 3/4" MDF for the surface. It's a very beefy table (>300lbs) and coupled with the aluminum table top, I'm expecting a very solid setup.

I will say 2 more things:

1) 1800mm is LOOONG. I have 1500mm y-axis rails x 1000mm x-axis rails and it is a BIG machine. You are not taking this anywhere after you get it setup; took me nearly 8 hours just to get the machine square!
2) You want midspan support brackets at that length.
Modified Shapeoko 2: 1500mm fully supported y-axis, 1000 mm 4060 x-axis, ACME Belt Drive Z-axis, Dewalt DNP611, full aluminum t-slot table, 4x NEMA23 180 oz/in stepper motors driven by a G540

ALuomala
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:30 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by ALuomala » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:13 pm

samc99us wrote:Using aluminum rail for the base, from Misumi, ($150 for free) is my recommendation. If you add an aluminum table to that, I'm confident you'll have a relatively rigid machine.

I'll probably be bolting mine to my 2x4Basics table, which has one sheet of plywood followed by a second sheet of 3/4" MDF for the surface. It's a very beefy table (>300lbs) and coupled with the aluminum table top, I'm expecting a very solid setup.

I will say 2 more things:

1) 1800mm is LOOONG. I have 1500mm y-axis rails x 1000mm x-axis rails and it is a BIG machine. You are not taking this anywhere after you get it setup; took me nearly 8 hours just to get the machine square!
2) You want midspan support brackets at that length.
I am also likely going to go that route (use the Misumi promotion to beef up the base, vs my original intent of buying their version of t-slot/-track extrusions for cutting board area), and use MDF as a waste board surface (milling it down flat).

I was wondering if anyone else was thinking that 1800mm (1.8m or 6 feet) is a little extreme. I think it is borne of the fact that the stock SO2 size is fairly small, and it seems very few people have made anything in between (I think there was at least one 1m x 1m SO2 made). I think (for N American's anyway) that 1800mm is a bit of a mystical number, since a lot of us don't use metric for that distance (maybe for really small (3mm) or really far 42km) it is hard to imagine what 1800mm looks like. As I mentioned in another post, I am of the era of Canadians that was brought up with both imperial and metric, so some habits die hard, and, well, Americans are Americans: only 3 countries in the world that use imperial, and the US is one of them. Makes me wonder why Makerslide isn't sold/marketed in feet/inches (besides the obvious answer that it is geared at engineers, who have been likely been brainwashed into using metric only). The more I try to imagine what my 1800mm x 900mm machine is going to look like (I picked these values more or less arbitrarily, based on wanting something bigger than stock, and the longest length of Makerslide that Inventables sells is 1800mm.... good thing they don't have 3000mm lengths!!! :twisted: ), the more I realize I may need to do a re-think. I do wish they had more variety in the lengths (rather than 200, 1000 and 1800mm) that they sell, so one could make a more reasonable (1200mm x 800mm perhaps) without a lot of waste. I think I will still buy 1800mm lengths and pare it down to a more manageable size (prolly 1200 x 800mm, but maybe 1500mm x 1000 just to be on the safe-ish side in case I need to move it around). Again, a case for coming up with a modular design with inserts to make it somewhat like a kitchen table with leaves that can be inserted/removed as necessary.

Here is a link for the mid-span supports sold by Shapeoko.com (link)
ShapeOko2, serial ??
DW660 spindle;
Upgrades: 900mm X axis and 1000mm Y axis; ACME Z Axis; modified MDF wasteboard with t-slot
Primary usage: wood crafting (signs, plaques, and ultimately a CNC-made electric guitar)

WillAdams
Posts: 8489
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:11 pm
Location: Pennsylvania --- south of the Turnpike, East of US-15
Contact:

Re: shakpeoko 2: expand to 1800mm x 900mm

Post by WillAdams » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:24 pm

I'll say it again, I'm really sad that they discontinued the 1.2M length --- my current project had to be shrunk to 99% 'cause it wasn't quite fitting on my 1M machine.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

Post Reply