Trying to figure out what I need

discussion of design changes / improvements / suggestions
sectorix
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:44 pm

Trying to figure out what I need

Post by sectorix » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:43 pm

Hi All,

Amazing forum, so much details and great ideas and builds! Happy I found this place.
Let me start off by saying that im not sure if i open this thread in the right sub-forum.

I am a newbie to the CNC world, and my main goal going into this is trying to figure if I could build a CNC that will allow me to build guitar bodies, and maybe even necks.
While I did see the 1mX1m option for upgrade, I feel that it will be an overkill on size and I dont have much room left in my garage for more stuff. too much woodworking gear :)

What I am aiming for is a shapeoko that will have either a Makita or a Bosch trimmer to carry 1/4" collet router bits, and to be able to do the following:
1. have a work are of 15" wide on 22" long, and plunge depth (z axis) able to go about 2" deep ( i can probably get away with 1.5 )"
2. a second option is 15" on 27" long so I can also build guitar necks. A guitar means that I have to also have an accurate way to turn the piece around and route stuff on the back (cavities etc...)

My immediate thoughts are to have the Bosch with a custom collet and dust collection cover, upgrade to Nema23 motors.

Being a newbie and not knowing anything about obtaining parts beyond the kit and official upgrades. I dont know which parts to buy for the size upgrade, and not sure about the size I need for the work area to be as big as I wanted or where to source it from.

my humble request is for:
1. help with sizing and guidance on where to source the parts in the lengths/sizes I need
2. someone to tell me that I'm not crazy, and that a Shapeoko will be able to mill a guitar.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Barry.

WillAdams
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Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by WillAdams » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:15 pm

I don't see why a Shapeoko wouldn't work well for that.

My suggestion would be a 1000mm x 500mm machine --- make the 1000mm the Y-axis w/ the open end plates --- this will allow greater rigidity and easier access to the material for clamping, esp. if you design your bed to accommodate it. I have 30.75" on my SO1 w/ the old-style end-plates --- w/ open end plates I'd easily have another 1.75" or so, though w/ the SO2's 500mm X-axis unfortunately you can't get the 15" width you want (you can get a bit more by fiddling w/ the belt anchors and the idler wheels) w/o upgrading the X also and the lengths they offer don't afford as much flexibility as one might want. You could get two 1000mm and one 1800mm and cut the latter to get two pieces in a length you want w/ some (saleable) length left over.

Rotating the piece is simple if one starts the machining by drilling a pair of holes along the centerline, then using them to fasten the material down, then flip after the first pass.

I use my SO1 to build (archery) bows, which I think are one of the most challenging of woodworking projects --- ISTR there were some other luthiers here though (hmm, does a cigar box count? http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic ... tar#p27965 and here's a machine at the size I suggested intended esp. for guitar necks: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic ... tar#p26677 another guitar maker: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic ... tar#p18547 ).

As a point of comparison you might want to look at the Lobo CNC project --- the designer builds guitars and has posted some software (which is linked from the wiki) for cutting frets &c. --- I still think the Shapeoko is a better option though --- easier to assemble and expand, fewer custom pieces, and those which are custom are flexible and readily re-purposed or sold.

I'd suggest the Makita router though, so you can get the 1/8" bit custom Elaire collet, just in case you want to do inlay work or other engraving.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets

sectorix
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by sectorix » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:59 pm

First of all thank you!

Yu said 1000 on 500, however if 500 gives me 12 inch, i am 3-4 inches short from my goal, so it sounds like i want a 600-650? if so, is that something i could buy anywhere?

WillAdams
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Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by WillAdams » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:01 am

I figured out that we were short on the X-axis and edited my post --- my suggestion is that you buy an 1800mm length and cut that into three pieces.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets

sectorix
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by sectorix » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:08 am

WillAdams wrote:I figured out that we were short on the X-axis and edited my post --- my suggestion is that you buy an 1800mm length and cut that into three pieces.
Here comes a strange question... :) how do I cat it ? its aluminum.. I have a bandsaw but I dont think it should cut anythign other than wood

Woodworker
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Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by Woodworker » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:12 am

Hacksaw or a friend that has a chop saw with a blade for non ferris metals
BRuce - SO2 #4798 - IC's Z axis upgrade, customized Z rail and Z motor mount, spindle Dewalt 611

cvoinescu
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Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by cvoinescu » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:18 am

Two 1800 mm sticks from Inventables would be the least wasteful way of doing it. Your rail needs to be about 180-190 mm longer than the travel, which should ideally be a little longer than the intended work area, to make things easier. So you probably need 620 mm X rails and 920 mm Y rails for comfortable 15" by 27" machining (or use all 1800 mm and go larger -- say 700 mm by 1100 mm).

You can cut it with a TCT chop saw or mitre saw (for wood, ideally a cross-cut blade, but general purpose works too), bandsaw (for metal -- not sure if the one for wood works -- it probably does), or even by hand with a hacksaw. Safety note: do not use abrasive discs to cut the rail unless they're specifically designed for aluminium. Do not grind it either (filing and sanding ok).
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

sectorix
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by sectorix » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:12 pm

Thank you for the info so far, since im a newbie to this, I think I will go for the 1m X 1m kit and just cut to size (i would have kept 1m on 1m but i dont have room.)

Another very important question if you dont mind... do i need Nema 23 if i intend to route through tough materials like Maple and Aluminum (not sure about the latter). I dont really know if i need the torque if I use a router like the Makita which should make the job easier on the bit side.

Barry.

LouisV
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Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by LouisV » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:30 am

sectorix wrote:Thank you for the info so far, since im a newbie to this, I think I will go for the 1m X 1m kit and just cut to size (i would have kept 1m on 1m but i dont have room.)

Another very important question if you dont mind... do i need Nema 23 if i intend to route through tough materials like Maple and Aluminum (not sure about the latter). I dont really know if i need the torque if I use a router like the Makita which should make the job easier on the bit side.

Barry.
I wouldn't say you absolutely need to replace the Nema 17 motors with Nema 23, but if you do you could have faster rapids (traveling from point A to point B) and of course a little bit more torque which can minimize the chances of missed steps at higher feed-rates.

WillAdams
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Re: Trying to figure out what I need

Post by WillAdams » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:59 am

Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets

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