Gryphon CNC extrusion

discussion of design changes / improvements / suggestions
WillAdams
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by WillAdams » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:56 pm

Probably there will be a matching site for Gryphon CNC like to the www.cncmogul<rudewordforaproductwhichisnotavacuumbeingbad>.com

listed here: http://www.webboar.com/ip/page:5/67.23.226.129
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
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Schruminator
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by Schruminator » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:59 pm

LouisV wrote:The rack and pinion system also has me really worried, it screams backlash to me and aluminum on aluminum is probably not ideal. :(
I think their rack and pinion system is a steel insert (into the slot on the rail) and a steel gear. At least I hope they are steel inserts and not aluminum ones. Either way, it'd be interesting to see the whole thing in operation.
1.8m x 1.0m SO2 #3638 / Vectric Aspire / ACME Z-axis / View my photography at http://www.mschrum.com

Gadgetman!
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by Gadgetman! » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:10 pm

Actually, having some distance between the top and bottom wheels of the Z-axis will reduce inaccuracy a bit since it stops the spindle wobbling along the X-axis of travel.
Of course, 7.5" is kind of overkill, and probably counter to the effect if the aluminium profiles aren't very strong aganst bending...
Not to mention that it requires longer rails which means more mass and potentially more problems with backlash and stretching belts.

I wouldn't put it past him to use aluminium in the rack and pinion...
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LouisV
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by LouisV » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:21 pm

Schruminator wrote:
LouisV wrote:The rack and pinion system also has me really worried, it screams backlash to me and aluminum on aluminum is probably not ideal. :(
I think their rack and pinion system is a steel insert (into the slot on the rail) and a steel gear. At least I hope they are steel inserts and not aluminum ones. Either way, it'd be interesting to see the whole thing in operation.
I was under the impression that they were made out of aluminum. I vaguely recall the Mogul using aluminum rack inserts but I can't say 100% sure off the top of my head. You could probably go to YouTube and find some Mogul machines running, they're virtually identical to the Gryphon. Some people seem to be happy with the Mogul, but other people have reported problems and inconsistencies with various parts of the machine. It probably boils down to expectations and your current knowledge of CNC machines. If you're totally new to CNC machines you might not really notice too many problems with the Gryphon or Mogul off the bat.

LouisV
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by LouisV » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:27 pm

Gadgetman! wrote:Actually, having some distance between the top and bottom wheels of the Z-axis will reduce inaccuracy a bit since it stops the spindle wobbling along the X-axis of travel.
Of course, 7.5" is kind of overkill, and probably counter to the effect if the aluminium profiles aren't very strong aganst bending...
Not to mention that it requires longer rails which means more mass and potentially more problems with backlash and stretching belts.

I wouldn't put it past him to use aluminium in the rack and pinion...
I totally understand that, but it's not explained why the wheels are so far apart and I can totally see people who are new to CNC machines expecting 7.5 inches of travel when that's not the case.

Also the aluminum extrusion is maker slide so it's not very strong against bending. As I've said before, this machine hasn't been thought out completely. There are some interesting and even cool ideas being used, but as a whole the machine feels like it was slapped together vs being carefully designed.

Atomist
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by Atomist » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:28 am

I'll just put this here....if this tells you anything.

http://cncmogulsucks.com/


On the rack and pinion...

http://cncmogulsucks.com/junk-rails/

joelcrawford
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by joelcrawford » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:52 pm

Would anyone like to know a real review instead of speculation? I happen to own a 4x8 Gryphon...

cvoinescu
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by cvoinescu » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:58 pm

Yes, please. As everything one reads on the Internet, we'll take it with a grain of salt, but it's another data point.
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joelcrawford
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by joelcrawford » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:11 pm

I did a quick video that briefly goes over some points. A couple things I would mention to some of the "CNC connoisseurs" (er... snobs) here:

1. Gryphon is very much like the CNCMogul. However I can't comment on that since I've never owned a CNCMogul system. However I do know that they are two different companies that have components in common.
2. The rack and pinion system is fantastic. Very little backlash. Certainly not nearly as much as the belts on the shapeoko.
3. The steal gear to aluminum rack does wear down the aluminum ... but that is to say maybe 10 thou over 1000 hours. More than anything it just keeps it burnished.
4. The system is solid. Yes it's lightweight but it handles a 2+HP router just fine. And because of the motors and the R&P it flies. In fact I just ordered a 4HP spindle to take advantage of cutting faster.
5. I'm sorry this forum started in such a negative manner, it's really a shame. Maker slide is proven, heck even if you want to compare it to CNCmogul there are thousands of machines in use all over the world.

6. Finally the price on production machines are 10k more than the Gryphon system. They have some advantages but not 10K worth. If I wanted to get a ShopBot Alpha it would have been over 20K more. So this is a budget machine. But the electronics are top, the structure holds fine and the customer support has been great (not that I needed anything other than to order another Z rail for a spare)

Like I said it's sad that this is a thread that comes up if you google their name. Folks with no direct contact reviewing something they've never seen in person. All I can say is that it's worked for 1300 hours so far and I'm on my second PC router ... but it just keeps chugging along. Finally here's my general video review. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2FanXKNoEw

Hans
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Re: Gryphon CNC extrusion

Post by Hans » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:28 pm

I'm glad Gryphon is working for you. For the record, the GT2 belts have zero backlash when tensioned. They're not very stiff, though. On the other hand, rack and pinion systems have inherent backlash but are much stiffer than the little belts on a Shapeoko. This trade-off makes belts better for moderate precision and light loads, and cheap R&P is better for moderate loads and low precision. There is also the lifespan issue with an aluminum rack. It's much cheaper to get stiffer belts and maintain zero backlash than it is to upgrade to steel rack and pinion, especially precision-ground and with anti-backlash pinion.

When your aluminum rack stops delivering enough precision for your needs, talk to LouisV here. He's experimented with stiffer belt drives and has had excellent results with the prototypes for the machines he'll soon be selling.
Shapeoko #1,123

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