Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

discussion of design changes / improvements / suggestions
Neppo1345
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:12 pm

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by Neppo1345 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:05 am

I'll let them know; I checked the numbers, and the thicknesses I listed above are correct. I'm going to guess someone either pulled from the wrong stack of washers , or the ridge inside the v-wheels is supposed to be thicker to match up with the shims...either way there was axial play in the stack-up. It really shouldn't be too hard to match these measurements up to within a couple thousandths.

So here's how I drilled my holes through the backplate and transferred them into the aluminum supports.

First off, I re-installed my spindle mount onto the carriage plate, and using a dial caliper did my best to get it centered.

Then I installed the two aluminum Z axis supports, and measuring from the outside of the carriage plate to the outside of the aluminum support (using the step measurement ability) I made sure the measurement at the top was equal to the measurement at the bottom.

Image
Image

I took that measurement (0.398-0.399), added half of the aluminum plate thickness to it (to give me the centerline),dashed some layout fluid on the backside of the plate, and scribed the centerline onto the plate (~0.520 for 1/4 inch plate). After the centerline was scribed, I marked out the hole centers and center-punched them.

Image

Over to the drill press, opening the holes to a clearance size (9/64) for the #6 screws I would be using.

Image

Then I put some layout fluid onto the mating face of the aluminum supports, and scribed the centerline down the middle of the face (this would let me spot the centerline through the holes to make sure everything was lined up.

I re-installed the spindle mount, and clamped up the aluminum plates to the side, made sure the centerlines lined up, and marked the vertical center of the holes with a scribe.

Image

Took everything apart, center punched the holes, clamped everything up in the vise, and drilled out the holes to the tap size for a #6 screw.

Image

And boom...hardest part out of the way.

Image

Then tap, and make sure the screws all fit before running the countersink cutter down into the holes (which is easy compared to everything you just did).

Image

Let me know if there are any more questions....I'm happy to help. Still hoping to get a full writeup done this weekend along with some tweaks to the models. Just very busy.

twforeman
Posts: 1347
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:51 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by twforeman » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:30 pm

I just discovered that I also have the issue with the washers being the wrong thickness. I was squaring up my machine and the Z was off, so I pushed and pulled it a bit and got the same popping as the bearings moved back and forth in the wheels.

Guess my build is halted now while I contact support. :(
Ender 3 3D Printer
ShapeOko v3 serial #0004 - upgrade thread
All of my ShapeOko related blog posts

Neppo1345
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:12 pm

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by Neppo1345 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:13 pm

twforeman wrote:I just discovered that I also have the issue with the washers being the wrong thickness. I was squaring up my machine and the Z was off, so I pushed and pulled it a bit and got the same popping as the bearings moved back and forth in the wheels.

Guess my build is halted now while I contact support. :(
You could always stop at the hardware store and see if they have thinner M5 washers?

If you don't have a dial caliper you can pick one up cheap at good 'ol harbor freight digital caliper for ~$15.00. They're a good to have in general; you'll find 100 reasons to use it.

twforeman
Posts: 1347
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:51 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by twforeman » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:24 pm

Neppo1345 wrote:You could always stop at the hardware store and see if they have thinner M5 washers?

If you don't have a dial caliper you can pick one up cheap at good 'ol harbor freight digital caliper for ~$15.00. They're a good to have in general; you'll find 100 reasons to use it.
I have all the measuring tools I need, and then some. :lol:

I'm interested to hear what Carbide 3D support says about the issue. I may indeed decide it's easier and more expedient to just buy some new washers. I'll probably take some of the v-wheels apart this afternoon and see if they are all the same and the washers are just wrong or if there is a tolerance issue in the wheel manufacturing.
Ender 3 3D Printer
ShapeOko v3 serial #0004 - upgrade thread
All of my ShapeOko related blog posts

twforeman
Posts: 1347
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:51 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by twforeman » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:23 pm

I started a new topic about the V-Wheel issues: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7567
Ender 3 3D Printer
ShapeOko v3 serial #0004 - upgrade thread
All of my ShapeOko related blog posts

wunderaa
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:45 am

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by wunderaa » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:54 pm

Completed mine today. Unit is solid. However, stiffness in the Y-direction is still poor. Next up is working on the v-wheels I think. Video milling some hickory at 200ipm listed below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqmbxK6wuHU
Attachments
IMG_20160131_154423.jpg
IMG_20160131_154423.jpg (173.53 KiB) Viewed 1305 times
IMG_20160131_154417.jpg
IMG_20160131_154417.jpg (141.42 KiB) Viewed 1305 times
IMG_20160131_154409.jpg
IMG_20160131_154409.jpg (199.11 KiB) Viewed 1305 times

apspurgeon
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:18 am

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by apspurgeon » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:11 am

I too stiffend my Z Plate, I still have movement. v-wheels tight as a drum.
Turns out 90% of the movement was the plastic v-wheel moving on the bottom 2 bearings. These guys take the strain and the seem to have deformed/stretched.

Have a look at the video

http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7572

Neppo1345
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:12 pm

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by Neppo1345 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:42 pm

wunderaa wrote:Completed mine today. Unit is solid. However, stiffness in the Y-direction is still poor. Next up is working on the v-wheels I think. Video milling some hickory at 200ipm listed below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqmbxK6wuHU
Looks awesome! I like the way you continued your plates down to the bottom of the carriage. Makes it look so clean.

wunderaa
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:45 am

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by wunderaa » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:49 pm

Looks awesome! I like the way you continued your plates down to the bottom of the carriage. Makes it look so clean.
thanks! Full credit to HDVideo though. I just ran with his beautiful drawing!

jkanzaki
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 3:00 am

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by jkanzaki » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:00 am

has anyone consider using metal v wheel to replace the current SO3 delrin v wheel ?
Shapeoko 1 - dissassemble
Shapeoko 2 - 1 x 1m expansion TinyG, superPid, Dw660, Aluminum extrusion bed, Nema 23, acme, Z axis upgrade, Dual Y
Shapeoko 3 - 0051 Stock Dw611, SuperPid, limit switch, 9mm belt

Post Reply