Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

discussion of design changes / improvements / suggestions
Post Reply
AnonymousPerson
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:16 pm
Location: 3753 Cruithne

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by AnonymousPerson » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:55 pm

jkanzaki wrote:has anyone consider using metal v wheel to replace the current SO3 delrin v wheel ?
Yeah, it comes up fairly often. Recent example here: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic ... 11&p=60905

:)
Shapeoko 3 #516

jkanzaki
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 3:00 am

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by jkanzaki » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:10 pm

How about replacing the delrin v wheel on the Z assembly unit.

Here I is my picture of annotation Image

What is the performance on the Z axis rail? Has anyone try? Would this set up be better? If there is no bearing tolerance issue mention earlier in this thread by other.

Also if Z axis is aluminum will it be hard to replace? If they are wear down by the steel v wheel?

To me using v wheel on the Z axis is a very alluring thought. :D

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Shapeoko 1 - dissassemble
Shapeoko 2 - 1 x 1m expansion TinyG, superPid, Dw660, Aluminum extrusion bed, Nema 23, acme, Z axis upgrade, Dual Y
Shapeoko 3 - 0051 Stock Dw611, SuperPid, limit switch, 9mm belt

WillAdams
Posts: 8514
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:11 pm
Location: Pennsylvania --- south of the Turnpike, East of US-15
Contact:

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by WillAdams » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:35 pm

Steel wheels have been discussed in the past. Consensus is they wear out the rails.

Carbide 3D doesn't sell the custom extrusion separately, so not sure how you'd replace it.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

jkanzaki
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 3:00 am

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by jkanzaki » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:07 pm

There's goes my idea of replacing the delrin V wheel with steel v wheel then. Of the Z axis aluminum extrusion isn't replaceable

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Shapeoko 1 - dissassemble
Shapeoko 2 - 1 x 1m expansion TinyG, superPid, Dw660, Aluminum extrusion bed, Nema 23, acme, Z axis upgrade, Dual Y
Shapeoko 3 - 0051 Stock Dw611, SuperPid, limit switch, 9mm belt

Atonwa
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:54 pm
Location: Corning, NY

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by Atonwa » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:15 pm

If you really feel strongly enough about it you can do it yourself but it won't be cheap.

Here is the setup on the Routakit with steel rails and steel wheels on the Z. It's an aluminum spacer block with a steel linear rail (Grainger) attached to it with the Openbuilds steel wheels.

Image
Shapeoko 3 #109
Routakit HD Beta #001

jkanzaki
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 3:00 am

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by jkanzaki » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:04 pm

Atonwa wrote:If you really feel strongly enough about it you can do it yourself but it won't be cheap.

Here is the setup on the Routakit with steel rails and steel wheels on the Z. It's an aluminum spacer block with a steel linear rail (Grainger) attached to it with the Openbuilds steel wheels.

Image
I don't mind spending money to do this but is it even feasible to adapt what you suggested to the z assembly of SO3 system?
i feel like this is a major hacking job. I am sure it will be fun.

Atonwa any resource you can provide for me to look into this ?

thanks
Shapeoko 1 - dissassemble
Shapeoko 2 - 1 x 1m expansion TinyG, superPid, Dw660, Aluminum extrusion bed, Nema 23, acme, Z axis upgrade, Dual Y
Shapeoko 3 - 0051 Stock Dw611, SuperPid, limit switch, 9mm belt

AnonymousPerson
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:16 pm
Location: 3753 Cruithne

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by AnonymousPerson » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:20 pm

Interesting. That looks pretty solid.

I'd been wondering how to get and keep a good straight edge on new X/Y rails, if I go for steel box versions instead of buying the Carbide 3D expansion kit.

Something like these Grainger ones seem like they'd do the trick:

https://www.grainger.com/product/PBC-Li ... Rail-2CRW4

What do you reckon? :)
Shapeoko 3 #516

Atonwa
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:54 pm
Location: Corning, NY

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by Atonwa » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:31 pm

AnonymousPerson wrote:Interesting. That looks pretty solid.

I'd been wondering how to get and keep a good straight edge on new X/Y rails, if I go for steel box versions instead of buying the Carbide 3D expansion kit.

Something like these Grainger ones seem like they'd do the trick:

https://www.grainger.com/product/PBC-Li ... Rail-2CRW4

What do you reckon? :)
Those are the ones on my machine I believe. Hardened steel and they are built just like OpenRail so you lip it over the edge. It really shouldn't be that difficult to modify the S3 to accept them. Simply make an aluminum spacer block that accepts these and bolts to the existing holes.

Only bummer is $82 a rail so if you could find a couple people interested to split the costs of materials it wouldn't be bad.
Shapeoko 3 #109
Routakit HD Beta #001

Atonwa
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:54 pm
Location: Corning, NY

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by Atonwa » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:41 pm

jkanzaki wrote:
Atonwa wrote:I don't mind spending money to do this but is it even feasible to adapt what you suggested to the z assembly of SO3 system?
i feel like this is a major hacking job. I am sure it will be fun.

Atonwa any resource you can provide for me to look into this ?

thanks
I'm not quite sure you will get the return on investment you think going from Delrin to Steel wheels on the Z. If you check some other threads by TWForeman you'll see the spacers in the v-wheels on the X-axis as well as the flex in the Z-axis plate contribute much tolerance than the actual z wheels.

But if you want to say you did it you can google Routakit and contact them about about their z-axis. Even on their smaller machine they stuck with the Delrin wheels on aluminum OpenRail with their ball screw design. Only when your using a heavy spindle do you probably need to worry.
Shapeoko 3 #109
Routakit HD Beta #001

AnonymousPerson
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:16 pm
Location: 3753 Cruithne

Re: Stiffness of the spindle carriage plate

Post by AnonymousPerson » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:46 pm

Atonwa wrote:Only bummer is $82 a rail so if you could find a couple people interested to split the costs of materials it wouldn't be bad.
Yeah, clicked on the wrong item. That $82 per rail one has an alternative (with pre-drilled holes) for $52 per rail instead:

https://www.grainger.com/product/PBC-Li ... Rail-2CRW8

Looks pretty do-able. I just need to get around to it, after finishing a few other higher priority things first. :)
Shapeoko 3 #516

Post Reply