It's time for a metal v-wheel

discussion of design changes / improvements / suggestions
Improbable Construct
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by Improbable Construct » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:20 am

I have replaced all of the nylon spacers on my big shapeoko with aluminum ones and I think it makes a significant enough difference that I would recommend it to anybody looking to eliminate a bit more backlash.
I have been buying my aluminum spacers at my local Ace hardware but McMaster-Carr has a large selection of them as well.
Shapeoko #Classified some of the bolts may be original parts.
Shapeoko 1 # ???? Stainless plates, still in the box.
Shapeoko 2 # 3926 not stock
Shapeoko 3 # 0003
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deejayspinz
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by deejayspinz » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:21 pm

Looks like another option for a rail that could support a metal v-wheel is out on Kickstarter now.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mic ... f=category

edwardrford
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by edwardrford » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:59 am

I saw this mentioned somewhere else (maybe this forum maybe buildlog.net) it was something about the wear of using metal vwheels on standard makerslide being overstated for someone using the machine a a hobby.

I use my machine a couple times a week, so not sure f that's hobby or more towards the continuous or more towards the rarely (not sure how often people use their machines). But after reading that I wondered the same thig : how much wear would occur if regular makerslide were used.

To do out the answer I had to do a couple of things:
1.) I ordered a set of 16 metal vwheels from build log.net.
2.) I motified the standard motor mount plates to utilize the metal vwheels (they have a smaller OD than the Delrin wheels)
3.) I had a prototype set of plates laser cut.
4.) I started assembling the machine with metal wheels.

So far I don't have my steppers hooked up, but the main frame an gantry are assembled. Things seem to run pretty smooth. The vwheels from build log feature *dual* angular contact bearings and are the same thig that shop bot uses (except these have a 5mm ID) they are rock solid to say the least.

Anxious to get everything hooked up an start exercising the machine. What should I be looking for in terms of how to spot the wear?

My plan is to write a gcode program to continuously run the machine in all axis for several hours at a time. If I'm satisfied by how things look then well have to come up with a way to test the wear under load.

I'm open to thought/suggestions on the test!

Edward
Shapeoko 1 #0 - a couple of upgrades.
Shapeoko 2 #0 - a couple of upgrades.
Shapeoko 3 #2 - Stock

Improbable Construct
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by Improbable Construct » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:41 am

Two thoughts on the wear testing:
1. Coat one side of the makerslide V with something so you can see where the V wheel is making contact on one side and compare it to any wear patterns on the other side.
You want something that doesn't have any real thickness but will rub off with contact. Sharpie maybe?

2. Only run the gantries back and forth in one half of the available travel on each axis.
When I considered going to steel wheels I was worried about creating bumps in the makerslide by not traveling evenly over the whole length. I would be interested to see if there was any "push" in the aluminum by constantly running to the same spot stopping and going the other way.

Those are the first thoughts that came to mind.
Anybody else have thoughts on this?
Also I would be interested to see if there were any heat build up in the aluminum.
Shapeoko #Classified some of the bolts may be original parts.
Shapeoko 1 # ???? Stainless plates, still in the box.
Shapeoko 2 # 3926 not stock
Shapeoko 3 # 0003
Store:
http://ImprobableConstruct.com
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/ImprblConstruct

roberlin
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by roberlin » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:50 am

edwardrford wrote:I saw this mentioned somewhere else (maybe this forum maybe buildlog.net) it was something about the wear of using metal vwheels on standard makerslide being overstated for someone using the machine a a hobby.
That "overstated for hobby use" was me. I was basing that opinion on Bart's report at buildlog.net
http://www.buildlog.net/forum/viewtopic ... 511#p13529
that someone had used steel wheels on aluminum for a year and it was still working fine (though scratched and pitted).

I've been intending for awhile to cut out some custom plates and try out the steel wheels myself (i think the chances of wearing out the makerslide with my weekend use before some hardcoat option is readily available are about nil), but have been distracted by other things (namely pushing to finish the Hadron that I cut out with my Shapeoko :-) )

I'm looking forward to hearing how the rest of Edward's tests go.

edwardrford
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by edwardrford » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:14 am

Yep. That's the post I was thinking about! Thanks for chiming in on this.

if It takes a year to wear out, could we consider the makerslide as basically a consumable :-) just like bits?

It wouldn't be ideal to have to switch rails once a year, but it's not completely out of The question either. Or I guess looking into a hard coat would be an option as well...

I'll keep everyone posted on how this turns out. In the meantime let me know how we are thinking the best way to test for wear is going to be.

Edward
Shapeoko 1 #0 - a couple of upgrades.
Shapeoko 2 #0 - a couple of upgrades.
Shapeoko 3 #2 - Stock

roberlin
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by roberlin » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:29 pm

One thing I'm curious about is how it will handle hard crashes (in the z direction or where the bit gets hung up on something while traveling in the y direction). It seems conceivable that the steel wheels could put a significant ding in the vrail.

Maybe that would be the last test to do, though :-)

microwavesafe
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by microwavesafe » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:55 pm

@Edward

I'm planning something similar, I have a handful of the metal V wheels from Bart's store. From my calculations the holes need to be moved 3.0mm towards each other to compensate for the smaller diameter of both wheels. Can you confirm these dimensions match your modified plates?

I'll be running this on a strip of 40 x 40 extrusion with open rail attached, giving me dual X rails and a stronger support between the two Y axis plates (well that's the plan anyway). Being hardened it should stand up to the metal bearings.

I'm hoping this mod makes a big difference to the X axis.

northbear
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by northbear » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:33 pm

Looks like Openbuilds is no longer supplying the metal v-wheel. It is no longer on their website and when I asked about carrying them in the future they said
We are on the fence about this but as of right now, we are not offering them.
Thought I would post this just FYI.
My buildlog is here

jsbannis
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Re: It's time for a metal v-wheel

Post by jsbannis » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:09 pm

Why carry hardcoated slide if you don't carry the v wheels to go with? I was planning on extending my machine with hardcoated and metal wheels when I (finally) get into a house (apartments suck for tinkerers). This is a bit disappointing.
shapeoko #0057

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