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bjbsquared
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:48 am

Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $395!!!

Post by bjbsquared » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:34 pm

This is just my mindset.... perhaps it will change as my CNC interests grows....

BobCAD looks like very nice software but as a hobbyist I have a hard time justifying the price. When I see Express(entry) level software advertised for $600 there is no point in looking further for me. Not when I can get my immediate needs met with Freeware or commercial for a little over $100. I know that BobCAD comes with a lot more features and capability but I really doubt that, as a hobbyist, I would use it.

So what would it take for BobCAD get my attention?

Some how get the price competitive with what is out there for the beginning hobbyist. Perhaps just 2.5D cam.
Make the software (more) modular/scaleable such that capability could be added in the future again keep price point to where is competitive or not a big dent in the hobby budget.
As a Hobbyist I don't want to pay for training videos to understand software that I already paid money for. Informal free YouTube videos are great.

I hope this post as seen as constructive and that other chime in with there thoughts. If there is one thing that is hampering this hobby it is the tool chain for the hobbyist.
#1016 - 1M x 1M Y: Dual Motor Drive w/Looped Belts, X:Dual Rail with wlanfox blocks, Z: Stock, Spindle:DW660

Gadgetman!
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Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $395!!!

Post by Gadgetman! » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:21 pm

Actually, having to BUY instruction videos feels like being shafted.

Paying for a 2 day, or even a week of classroom/workshop training, though, that's another matter. That's INTERACTIVE.
We'd be paying for access to an instructor and the possibility to ask questions wherever something feels vague or confusing.
(I have had classroom training in everything from Windows/office to network analysis tools, to massive storage systems and advanced server admin topics. I'm certifiable in more than one way... )

GOOD instruction videos should be accessible for everyone, maybe on YouTube, and would work as good advertising.
And they need to cover all the basics + some of the more advanced features. They don't need to show off all the most advanced features. Those clips may be on a 'licensee area' on the main site, or included with the software.

The videos also need to state what kind of HW the SW is demonstrated on. This will give prospective buyers a good idea of whether or not their computers are 'up to the job' or not. Sure, you may lose a sale or ten because some hobbyist realises that it probably won't run on his PC, but if he buys it, then complains high and low about that 'shitty program that doesn't run on his PC'... How many sales may that cost you? Especially given your rather 'unfortunate' support history?

GOOD Documentation SELLS SoftWare.
Only very rarely does the Software sell the documentation...
And you can bet that those who do buy the 'supporting documentation'(videos) will REALLY consider competing products when it comes time to upgrade.

Good documentation also means fewer problem reports on the net or to your tech support, which means your developers will be able to properly concentrate on the real problems in the SW when they're reported instead of chasing down user errors.
Weird guy...
Shapeoko 2014F: 1000mm X/Y, 300W Quiet Cut spindle, Arduino Uno/G-shield and GRBL 0.9i
15x30 drag chains, custom spindle mount, 9mm belts, 8mm endplates, 6mm motor plates.

kbot3d
Posts: 110
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Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $395!!!

Post by kbot3d » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:36 am

I completely agree with both of you.

Point 1 The how to videos should be easily available and free. I watched all of the videos for Bobart I could find and nothing advanced was covered. Note that the BobArt cds were a small part of the video package I borrowed. The Pro features I was after are for more artsy stuff to expand the abilities of my machine. Many of the advanced features and ease of use tricks are left out leaving me to wonder how to fix issues I am having as I work up files while waiting on spindle parts. At this point I am a little frustrated with the software as my projects are turning into more work than I want. That being said the artcam pro version is much more expensive to the point of being prohibitive.

Point 2 It should be cheap for the hobbyist. $400 was the advertised package price. Thats dirt cheap for a pro shop but its not price friendly for a home hobbyist. Very few using a shapeoko are Pro level. Most of us myself included have less than a grand in the machine total. In comparison, I have 5 grand worth of printers in my office and those are just the ones for my own use.

With that in mind I started out with $30 worth of bits and never expected to use them to great extent. I now have a few hundred bits of every type and size that will fit a dw660. My shapeoko was the means to make my kool cool rolling ice chest prototype (available next year) that is launching my business from a hobby to a profession. Software is the toolbox and for every job there is a correct tool. Cant drill a hole with a hammer. I spent good money on (some of) my cad/cam software and it has paid for itself. Of course it took a year of 20 hour days to get there

I did this evaluation mostly because I felt Al depaolo got beat up pretty bad on the forum without much first person opinion. I can find plenty of negative feedback on just about anything on the net.Hell, Im a chevy guy till the end but half of gms stuff is crap. My first 5 trucks were chevy and now Ive got a dang superduty turbodiesel. Some things are worth trying out. Please note at this point Im neither for nor against this package. I see as many pros as I do cons. I will keep working through the software and communicating with Bobcad to find the best package at the best price that is worth endorsing.

aldepoalo
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm

Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $395!!!

Post by aldepoalo » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:18 pm

I wanted to post my youtube page as a resource for this community.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Depoalo


No one software program is perfect, but the more you know how to use it the better it is for you. If the shapeoko user based starts to choose BobCAD CAM products as a solution to program their machines I will be here to help. I am active in many communities and I have every intention to stay here and support you guys. If you have a BobCAD CAM question and want to understand the work flow and steps just ask. I will create a step by step video and post it on my youtube page. Currently I have over 80 videos and each one was based on user feed back from a forum thread, or email to me.

Also when it comes to the shapeoko BobCAD Bundle package, I am willing to make adjustments to the price in what is offered.

Currently it sounds like the package most of you would be interested in ( at the right price ) would be:

[*]V25 Mill Express
[*]BobART Pro
[*]Video Training Program

So we can talk about the bundle and cost more latter, for now let's see how kbot3d makes out with the software and his projects.
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Al DePoalo
Partner Products Manager
866-408-3226 X147
BobCAD CAM, Inc.

areinike
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:55 pm

Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $395!!!

Post by areinike » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:46 am

Hi, Al. I'm just starting out and the biggest problem I have is finding good, easy to use software. Because I'm new to the forum, I'm not able to PM. However, perhaps you can PM me? I would be interested in a seat for BobCAD from a new user's perspective and would love to give feedback. I'm not sure if the offer is still on the table, but if so, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks,
Allan

aldepoalo
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm

BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $149

Post by aldepoalo » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:25 pm

Ok Shapeoko customers I have a new offer for this community! I am confident that V24 is a great solution especially with the BobART program. Yes there are share ware and free ware and low cost solutions you guys have have looked at, but BobCAD CAM is a better solution and now at a better price! The price I was offering the BobCAD software for with the BobART program was $395. This price seems to be a little more than many of you are willing to take a stab at. So I am going to lower the price to help you guys out and provide a complete CAD CAM and ART solution!

My new offer is:

V24 Mill Standard Program $100
V24 BobART Pro $49

So you are looking at $149 for the whole package. This software would be delivered by download and support would come direct from this community ( by me and other power users )

If you are interested in the video training program you can pick it up for $75 more and $25 for shipping.

This new lower price should help you guys out! If there are any questions about the program and how it works please call me. I will send you a 5 day full featured download link, this way you can test the software on your machine!

Al DePoalo
BobCAD CAM Partner Products Manager
866-408-3226 X147
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Al DePoalo
Partner Products Manager
866-408-3226 X147
BobCAD CAM, Inc.

WillAdams
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Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $149

Post by WillAdams » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:18 pm

aldepoalo wrote:V24
$149 for the whole package. This software would be delivered by download and support would come direct from this community ( by me and other power users )
Okay, that's low enough to be interesting to me, assuming the older version (apparently v25 is the current?) has reasonably nice features for drawing.

Here are the features which I need to have:

- pen tool must work like the one in FreeHand (preferably v8 or earlier)
- selection must default to only selecting entire objects encompassed by a drag
- easy shortcut to select the next object down in a stack (Freehand uses <control>-click)
- keyboard shortcut for zooming to the current selection
- it must be possible for a selection to include both nodes and complete objects
- it must be possible to align an object against a node (or vice versa) using the Align palette
- page size / options must be a persistent palette / inspector
- snap to page edges must be reliable and have a higher priority than other snaps
- options for rounded corners on rectangles / squares
- option for using the origin as the center when creating an object

Features which I'd like to have:

- elegant option for drag path to alter shape
- graphics find-and-replace
- wrapping tabs
- shape recognition when grouping a path (if the nodes of a path make a regular polygon, restore it to being a polygon)
- ability to place text w/in a rectangle which has its own fill / stroke options and user options for inset along each edge

Unfortunately, moot point, since you only offer your program for Windows.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

aldepoalo
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm

Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $149!!!!

Post by aldepoalo » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:42 pm

Here are the features which I need to have:

- pen tool must work like the one in FreeHand (preferably v8 or earlier)

This is not supported.

- selection must default to only selecting entire objects encompassed by a drag

You can select by layer color pick and match window and chain to name a few

- easy shortcut to select the next object down in a stack (Freehand uses <control>-click)

Not sure about this one...

- keyboard shortcut for zooming to the current selection

Yes we have hot keys and mouse features for zoom window pan and rotate


- it must be possible for a selection to include both nodes and complete objects

We are not object based, but yes you can select chains or single surfaces or solids

- it must be possible to align an object against a node (or vice versa) using the Align palette

Just move by point...

- page size / options must be a persistent palette / inspector

We do not draw based on page size.

- snap to page edges must be reliable and have a higher priority than other snaps

Yes we offer snap points for selection that you can turn on or off as needed

- options for rounded corners on rectangles / squares

Yes can create fillets

- option for using the origin as the center when creating an object

yes

Features which I'd like to have:

- elegant option for drag path to alter shape

not sure what you want here. With BobCAD you load a CAM feature select a geometry set and tool path it...
- graphics find-and-replace

What would you need to find and replace

- wrapping tabs

more detail needed.

- shape recognition when grouping a path (if the nodes of a path make a regular polygon, restore it to being a polygon)

BobCAD is not object based so you'll need to run the demo to understand how it works better.

- ability to place text w/in a rectangle which has its own fill / stroke options and user options for inset along each edge

yes

Unfortunately, moot point, since you only offer your program for Windows.

Correct just for windows.
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Al DePoalo
Partner Products Manager
866-408-3226 X147
BobCAD CAM, Inc.

zparker2000
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:08 pm

Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $149!!!!

Post by zparker2000 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:09 pm

I'm interested in buying Bobcam V24 & Art, but when called there was no answer and your voice mail is full. Can I still get the Bobcam v24 deal?

zparker2000
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:08 pm

Re: BobCAD CAM V24 Mill Standard & BobART For only $149!!!!

Post by zparker2000 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:45 pm

Never mind... I got through to Keven...

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