Narrative / path for new users?

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WillAdams
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Narrative / path for new users?

Post by WillAdams » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:18 pm

How does one envision this working?

My expectation is that new people:

- buy a machine, get the .pdf, assemble it
- if there are any difficulties, they work them out using docs.carbide3d.com and http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/ ... leshooting or http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/ ... leshooting or http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Shapeoko_3 or of course, use the Forums here or at carbide3d.com
- they then find docs.carbide3d.com and http://docs.carbide3d.com/article/37-sh ... ello-world
- then they watch a video or two: http://carbide3d.com/carbidecreate/vide ... er-design/ and http://carbide3d.com/carbidecreate/vide ... machining/
- and then search, find the wiki and begin working on projects: http://www.shapeoko.com/projects/projects.php

Is there some need which new users are having which we're falling short on?
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

Atonwa
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Location: Corning, NY

Re: Narrative / path for new users?

Post by Atonwa » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:39 pm

I am not familiar with how the Shapeoko 1 and 2 worked but I can explain my experience with the S3 and what may be causing confusion.

The S3 is being marketed under Carbide as a full blown consumer ready product according to their website and info. Buy this and cut all these cool things. I feel the S1 and S2 were correctly marketed as this is a hobby level machine that is open source and your expected to tinker with it. Clearly everyone understood what they were getting when they bought in.

With a new non technical market Carbide is shooting for you can't have assembly instructions stop after mechanical assembly. Most people have no idea what a wiki is let alone how to navigate it. What they are looking for is the rest of the instructional manual that says, load this software by doing this. Run your test print by doing this and go to our website to view instructional videos. Cut your first piece with the included piece of MDF like this at these feeds and speeds. Here is some recommended feeds and speeds for other materials when using a Dewalt DW611 recommended router.

It's even more confusing now with S3 information and answers by Carbide only being posted on their official forum instead of on here. New people may not be aware that this is just a community site now with little to no interaction with the vendors. If they have support questions they need to email or ask on their official forum now.

The information and support here is unbelievable, especially everything that you have done with the wiki. It truly is just educating the buyers. If Carbide would simply add to the instructions to go to their website for official support and acknowledge the S3 Community forum to help answer questions and see what your machine can do it would go a long way towards helping newcomers. The Shopbot forum is nice because it is sponsored by the manufacturer and they interact with the users there along with the community.

Just my 2 cents.
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Atonwa
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Re: Narrative / path for new users?

Post by Atonwa » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:47 pm

Ok so I rescind part of my previous statement but I'll let it stand as it adds further confusion.

If I go to Shapeoko.com and click forum I get this one. But if I go to Carbide3d.com to purchase and click on forum I get theirs. They are only posting support answers on their forum now.

Maybe even something as simple as "New Users Click Here" on the main page of this forum to link them you to your links would help.
Shapeoko 3 #109
Routakit HD Beta #001

woodworkerbob
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Re: Narrative / path for new users?

Post by woodworkerbob » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:54 am

WillAdams wrote:How does one envision this working?

My expectation is that new people:

- buy a machine, get the .pdf, assemble it
... good stuff deleted
Is there some need which new users are having which we're falling short on?
Qualifier: I have not been searching for beginner information for at least 6 months so my views are highly tainted by an out of date perspective. Clicked on the links Will noted and was impressed with the information.


My $0.02. I want a "Beginners Start Here Web Page"
Executive summary: A single web page that directs beginners to introductory pages with enough information to move the beginner forward. And I ramble so, get a cup of coffee before you start reading.

The text that was deleted from the quote is a good start, but a beginner has dozens of paths that have to be traversed, some simple, some complex. Each of these paths has many choices and sometimes too many choices lead to frustration. Some times the links point to sites are way too in depth and way too complex for a beginner.

With a single starting point, out of date links can be avoided. My example: I found a link to a site to download UGS, Univeral G-code Sender, but the link pointed me to a web site that was out of date. Some features didn't seem to work, so I contacted UGS support and suggested using the latest version. Not bit deal but frustrating as none of us have enough time playing on their SO3.

Too many choices - aka, "Here is every possible combination and variation on a theme web site." Go to the web site for G-code Communication and Control, there must be 25 different programs. Too many choices! Narrow down the choices. Pick 3 or 4 that are identified as working for "many" SO3 users. List the good points of each: "Easy to learn, but limited features"; "Used by many, stable, good feature set, need to read documentation"; "Very good feature set, but more complex to use". Listing the other 20+ choices is OK, but as a beginner I do not want to make the evaluation of each one of them.

A frustrating example for me: I wanted to try using Chilipeppr. The wiki page a found directed me to the down load web site. Useful, but what I needed was, Beginning Chilipeppr users start here web page. That page then could talk about the serial tool, JSON(?), and how to set up Chilipeppr. I did find a video(typically I don't search for videos) where the author of Chilipeppr talks about using the tool. I'm a paper guy so I like to have hard copy of documentation (personal problem).

The same should holds true for UGS or Carbide Motion. I want a "Start here" page for each software tool listed on my "Beginners start here" page. Give some information so I can begin cutting some wood. Perhaps I'm biased, but if you're cutting aluminum, you ain't no beginner.

Some times very complex subjects need to be simplified to "This will work. Do a couple of projects with it, then read more and optimize your process." Example: "Speeds and Feeds" This is a huge topic, but a beginner needs an answer like, "For wood, cut depth maximum of 1/2 the diameter of the cutting tool (not the shaft diameter) and a feed rate of 10 inches per minute." No this is not optimal. No this is not the fastest. But this can get a beginner started on a project for just about any wood. You don't want a newbie going down the worm hole that is "speeds and feeds."


This "Beginners Start Here" page doesn't have to have new information, just an organization aimed at someone who doesn't have any experience. I think most of the information is out there, but just a minor re-org and simplification is required.

I don't really know how to do this, but I volunteer to help. Just ask.
Bob
Shapeoko 3 - #13, dust deputy, precision collets, limit switches.
SVEMakerSpaces

WillAdams
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Re: Narrative / path for new users?

Post by WillAdams » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:51 am

The Software Overview page presents a pretty simplified set of instructions and has a default set of tools.

http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Software

And I’ve added some links / text to the main page which will hopefully get new folks started.

I’ve been thinking that we need to sort out the SO1/2-specific stuff, esp. for the upgrades.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

woodworkerbob
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:31 pm
Location: SVEMakerSpaces - Mesa, AZ

Re: Narrative / path for new users?

Post by woodworkerbob » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:56 am

WillAdams wrote:The Software Overview page presents a pretty simplified set of instructions and has a default set of tools.

http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Software

And I’ve added some links / text to the main page which will hopefully get new folks started.

I’ve been thinking that we need to sort out the SO1/2-specific stuff, esp. for the upgrades.
Great on the Software page and separating the So1-2 from SO3. But "How did I know to click on the "Software" link? Will, you do a great job and I'm just picking at nits.

Thanks for your work.
Bob
Shapeoko 3 - #13, dust deputy, precision collets, limit switches.
SVEMakerSpaces

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