How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

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lordmundi
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by lordmundi » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:54 am

I agree. I love the options that cloud software provides, but I think making something always updating underneath users is not the best decision if you want to support professional users. Once I've set up everything and tested everything for a production run, I cannot just hope that the software doesn't change the next day when I do my run. It is unfortunate because I like CP better than any of the other gcode utilities out there. I've also seen folks with older CNC hardware that requires them to run windows XP or windows 98, which presents security vulnerabilities, so they keep those machines air-gapped and off the network. This is another reason why some folks machines/garages are offline.

Oh well... the world still turns.

WillAdams
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by WillAdams » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:53 am

Woodworker wrote:Also since 60% of the worlds population doesn't have internet access, not everything belongs in the cloud.
That's one thing I've been wondering about --- should we put forth some sort of especial effort to make Shapeoko available in such portions of the world?

If so, how? The open source ecology folks have been working at this to some degree --- are there other more suitable venues? Anything along the lines of Heifer International for craftsmen?
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Woodworker
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by Woodworker » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:08 am

I think the fact that it is open source and lower cost than other solutions is the most we can as individuals can do. Now if there is a way to donate parts and pieces to help build one of these in a remote location, I would be all over that. I would donate my parts and donate cash to assist buying ones that are not donated. I am not aware of any org like that but it is an interesting thought.
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CastIrony
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by CastIrony » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:30 am

I really like the Chilipeppr UI, and the functionality of the app is pretty great, and I can totally get behind running a gcode sender app like this in the browser.

But I see no reason at all that Chilipeppr couldn't have been a simple static HTML page that runs some Javascript, with all the code available on Github. It would have made it super easy to self-host, or use offline, while still serving the latest version on chilipeppr.com. I do not understand what JSFiddle offers that is worth making that so hard.
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khauser24
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by khauser24 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:56 pm

WillAdams wrote:I really don't understand this rush to return to the bad old days of the centrally-controlled mainframe. Personal computers are supposed to be about freedom.

If need be, we'll create yet another section of software on the wiki --- "free" software which doesn't give one the freedom to run it w/o a 'net connection.
That was my reaction a while back, but I've come to realize that it isn't about going back to the mainframe way of thinking. It's more about how we can divide the work among all of the interconnected things.

ChiliPeppr, for instance, does NOT run "in the cloud". It runs right there in your browser. That's why you can connect to ChiliPeppr, initialize all the widgets, and then drop your connection and yet continue to work with ChiliPeppr (assuming you don't try to use a new widget or a method intentionally written to use the cloud, like cloud-based config backup).

It certainly doesn't solve every problem and it doesn't pretend to. It's an approach.

I think the reason we see such strong feelings is due to Synthetos' choice to discontinue tgfx and recommend ChiliPeppr in its place. In my mind these are two separate programs with separate purposes.

khauser24
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by khauser24 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:59 pm

Woodworker wrote:Also since 60% of the worlds population doesn't have internet access, not everything belongs in the cloud.
That's an exaggeration of my point ... I was not advocating that everything move to the cloud, now. I am addressing a single use of the cloud and prognosticating on where I, as a software developer, see things going in the not too distant future. As I've said elsewhere, I don't think everything should be "in the cloud"...

khauser24
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by khauser24 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:08 pm

CastIrony wrote:I really like the Chilipeppr UI, and the functionality of the app is pretty great, and I can totally get behind running a gcode sender app like this in the browser.

But I see no reason at all that Chilipeppr couldn't have been a simple static HTML page that runs some Javascript, with all the code available on Github. It would have made it super easy to self-host, or use offline, while still serving the latest version on chilipeppr.com. I do not understand what JSFiddle offers that is worth making that so hard.
I'll make one more attempt at this, but I hope people understand my goal is to explain and NOT to defend the choice.

Imagine you are considering putting together some piece of work and contributing it to the global community. Once its out there, you have to support it (assuming you care and want it to thrive). If you do this is the classic release model, you'll be forever supporting older versions. ChiliPeppr's use of SPJS is an example of this ... many issues people report on ChiliPeppr are because they downloaded SPJS some time ago and haven't updated it. SPJS is a classic release model software. ChiliPeppr is always running the latest and greatest. Is this an ideal solution for everyone? Even leaving issues of connectivity out of it the answer is clearly 'no' ... there are going to be a lot of uses where it's more necessary to be consistent than it is to be correct. As an example if a bug was found in ChiliPeppr's interpretation of x-space, changes are people have worked around that bug and are creating pieces based on that. An automatic fix to that will render the workaround useless and cause inconsistency at a possibly unwanted time.

It's a balancing act, and the author has chosen a mechanism that benefits his work and service model.

If you had to PAY for ChiliPeppr you'd have a right to expect a different level of support, but the ability to pay for ChiliPeppr doesn't even exist.

Given the desire for a classic model, I imagine someone will create one at some point, but it won't be ChiliPeppr...

Woodworker
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by Woodworker » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:26 pm

Put a local version of CP for sale and I will buy it. Or run it on kickstarter and I will support it. It has enhanced features, integration with the community it supports and I would love to use it, offline. Personally I would suggest that he sell it per version. If you buy version 1.x then you get all updates until 2.0, if you want the increased functionality, upgrade at a price. There is a tremendous amount of work, thought and time gone into this product and I think it is time to "give back". Maybe, make the network version free and let those be the testers.
BRuce - SO2 #4798 - IC's Z axis upgrade, customized Z rail and Z motor mount, spindle Dewalt 611

khauser24
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by khauser24 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:55 am

Just to be clear I am not John Lauer (the author of ChiliPeppr) though I have in a small way contributed to it, and will continue to do so.

If John wants to dedicate his time to a retail version that is his choice ... I wouldn't do it. Knowing his career I doubt he'd do it either...

Woodworker
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Re: How to run ChiliPepr w/o internet (was Re: Software)

Post by Woodworker » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:21 am

I'm not asking him to. I'm saying I can't use it the way it is but would be willing to pay for a version I could.
BRuce - SO2 #4798 - IC's Z axis upgrade, customized Z rail and Z motor mount, spindle Dewalt 611

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