#2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

WillAdams
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by WillAdams » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:51 pm

Gadgetman! wrote:My square is cut from a single piece of 2mm thick steel. The long arm is 2" wide and the short is 1.5" wide.
If there's any error in it, there's very little possibility to correct it.
(I know that it doesn't lie completely flat)
As I've stated, it's quite possible to correct any error, and one has to do this w/ framing squares quite often --- you can also make it lay flat again, but I'm dropping this until you either:

- look up the reference I posted, try it out and prove that it doesn't work
- cite a better reference which will convince me against my personal experience that this doesn't work when I've seen it done and have successfully done it myself.
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Will Winder
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by Will Winder » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:23 pm

Gadgetman! wrote:My square is cut from a single piece of 2mm thick steel. The long arm is 2" wide and the short is 1.5" wide.
If there's any error in it, there's very little possibility to correct it.
(I know that it doesn't lie completely flat)
That sounds like a pretty typical framing square, take a look at this video to see what Will was talking about. I've heard about this method as well, its commonly used and people have good success with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vDY_p3eilQ

Personally I've had terrible luck with framing squares, the blades often aren't even straight so of course no amount of hammering is going to fix it. Eventually I went out and bought a precision Incra square that came with a certificate of accuracy (the price of that square has gone up from $50->$85 since I bought it in 2011, I'm not sure I would have bought it at $85). I generally only bring my certified square out to check the accuracy of my other squares.

To get the best accuracy for your buck I've heard that those cheap plastic speed squares are very accurate
ShapeOko #367: Dual-Y drive, Belt on outside, 1000mm Y-Axis, DW660 Spindle, Nema-23 X/Y motors.

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WillAdams
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by WillAdams » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:33 pm

Will Winder wrote:Eventually I went out and bought a precision Incra square that came with a certificate of accuracy (the price of that square has gone up from $50->$85 since I bought it in 2011, I'm not sure I would have bought it at $85).
One of my luckier tool buys was wandering into an old (established around the time of the Civil War) hardware store and finding a General Tools 6" Machinist's Square (Made in England) --- the current ones are Made in China and a decent value IMO (if you get one which is truly square):

http://www.generaltools.com/270-6--PREC ... p_566.html

but the one I bought still had the '70s or so price sticker on it, so was less than half that and quite a bit less than what an equivalent tool (made somewhere that skilled machinists are paid a decent wage) would cost now.
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doorknob
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by doorknob » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:44 pm

I'm getting an unexpected education in framing and machinists' squares here.

Thanks... (no sarcasm there, I actually mean it)

Gadgetman!
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by Gadgetman! » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:00 pm

Well, my square is a 'no name' brand that's painted black, even on the edges...
I don't really feel that I can trust it, so out it goes no matter how true it is or not.

Stopped by a HW store on my way home and picked up a Stanley square of the same size to replace it.

Also picked up a smaller one, and a steel ruler(50cm). I'll be checking the new squares later this evening, just to be certain.
Weird guy...
Shapeoko 2014F: 1000mm X/Y, 300W Quiet Cut spindle, Arduino Uno/G-shield and GRBL 0.9i
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WillAdams
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by WillAdams » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:26 pm

It's well worth it to learn how to check and fix a straight edge: http://www.hntgordon.com.au/checkingyou ... htedge.htm

For my part, I can't understand tossing out a tool simply because one doesn't understand how to fix it.
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Gadgetman!
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by Gadgetman! » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:20 pm

I'm not tossing it out because I don't understand how to fix it.
It's going out because I no longer feel that I can trust it.

I placed the new Stanley on top of the old one, and aligned the short limbs as well as I could. At the end of the long limb, the difference was about 1mm.
Since I can never be absolutely certain about the thickness of the paint on it, either, it's definitely time to retire it.
Weird guy...
Shapeoko 2014F: 1000mm X/Y, 300W Quiet Cut spindle, Arduino Uno/G-shield and GRBL 0.9i
15x30 drag chains, custom spindle mount, 9mm belts, 8mm endplates, 6mm motor plates.

Gadgetman!
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by Gadgetman! » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:54 pm

Awww.... BUGGER!!!

One of my rails is bent!
And I can't understand when or how it happened. I KNOW they were all straight when they arrived because I checked that.
(I'm an IKEA blackbelter; I check that every part is in the box before starting assembly, and I make certain they look right, too.)

It's the rail for the side without a Y-axis motor. There was 'something not right' when I tried tightening up the wheels on the motor plate. I could tighten up any 3 and it would move normal, but the moment I tried to tighten up and adjust the 4th, it got difficult to slide the assembly along.
I disassembled it and checked the motor plate, which was flatter than a drag queen's chest, checked the wheels and washers... Everything was great. Then I slid it onto the rail for the X-axis... It was smooth as a baby's bottom...
When I held a square up against the rail, it was perfectly vertical at the ends, but in the middle it bent inwards about 1.5mm at the top compared to the bottom.
I can SEE the damage with my eyes when I sight along the top of the rail. There's no way that would have passed me by during inspection.

It seems I'm in the market for longer Hardcoat Anodized Makerslide rails a bit before planned...
(I'm not even going to try to correct the rail. I just don't have the tools, the bench or the experience for that job.)

Anyone have 500mm in stock?

Good news?
Got my cable carrier chains today. 7x7mm really IS enough for the motor cabling.
(Got a 10x15mm for the X and Z motors, and spindle power. May consider running the Spindle power separately, though. We'll see.)
Weird guy...
Shapeoko 2014F: 1000mm X/Y, 300W Quiet Cut spindle, Arduino Uno/G-shield and GRBL 0.9i
15x30 drag chains, custom spindle mount, 9mm belts, 8mm endplates, 6mm motor plates.

cvoinescu
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by cvoinescu » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:38 pm

Gadgetman! wrote:It seems I'm in the market for longer Hardcoat Anodized Makerslide rails a bit before planned...
(I'm not even going to try to correct the rail. I just don't have the tools, the bench or the experience for that job.)

Anyone have 500mm in stock?
Maybe, if you can bear to wait a week or two -- I am still swamped and haven't had a chance to do a proper inventory.

I don't think there's anyone else selling hardcoat anodized MakerSlide at the moment. Inventables did, briefly, a while ago.
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NormanF
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Re: #2014F - the Birth, life and fall of a machine...

Post by NormanF » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:24 am

Gadgetman! wrote:Awww.... BUGGER!!!
I feel your pain. Maybe this lot was packaged on an old Indian burial ground. I have 2013F and I sheared the tap off in the very first hole I was tapping when I got too aggressive. I ordered some openrail and now I'm just waiting for the upgrade parts to be for sale on Inventables.

Sent from my Etch A Sketch.

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