Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

WillAdams
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by WillAdams » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:42 am

You don't need the MXL belting/pulley if getting GT2, so drop:

18 Tooth, ¼ Shaft MXL Pulley - Qty 3 (I am not sure this is necessary?)
MXL Belt, ¼” wide - Qty 5 ft (I am not sure if this is necessary?)

I'd probably extend the belting by a foot --- it'll make it easier to get a bit more working area (my belts fall shorter than I'd wish)

My suggestion would be to get a 3D model (SketchUp or Inventor?) of the ShapeOko and draw up what you have in mind --- hopefully Inventables will post a NEMA 23 upgrade project as they did for dual motor.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets

CalebPeters
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by CalebPeters » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:49 am

marcus4e,

Well, I have to confess that I'm still a newbie at CNC stuff too, but if any of the knowledge I accumulated in the last couple months can help you then here you go. Just keep in mind that I don't have a ton of experience doing this yet, and I would hate to lead you astray. That being said, here is some input that I can give you on your list of parts.

NEMA 17 Stepper Motor - 25253-01 - Qty 1 ( Looks good.)

Stepper Motor Cable - 25305-01 - Qty 15 ft ( I actually bought 20 foot, and I'm glad I did.)

Power Supply-24volt - 25309-01 - Qty 1 ( I personally don't think this is a big enough power supply. 24 volt is fine for use on the grblShield, but I would look for something that could provide at least 15A.)

Power Cord - 25320-01 - Qty 1 (Need it.)

Arduino Uno with grbl Installed - 25063-02 - Qty 1 (Need it)

grblShield - 25368-02 - Qty 1 (It's a good option if you don't feel comfortable messing with the electronics. However, if I was going to use an Arduino solution, I would most likely use the v3.0 Buildlog CNC Stepper shield that Reactive Substance makes, and 4 Pololu DRV8825 motor drivers.
You can find them here:
http://www.reactivesubstance.com/shop.html
http://www.pololu.com/product/2133/
Some reasons I would do it this way are:
1. All of your motors can be on separate drivers
2. The Pololu DRV8825 stepper motor drivers can be used in a configuration that works with Mach 3 or Linuxcnc.
3. If you accidentally destroy one of the stepper drivers it is easily replaced.)

Terminal Blocks (2x4 Type) - 24306-01 - Qty 3 ( I'm very comfortable with soldering so I didn't get these. However, if you don't like to solder they are definitely useful.)

Power Supply Adapter Cable - Qty 1 (Is this the barrel plug connector?) ( I don't know, but you shouldn't need it. The grblShield has a terminal block to connect the power supply to it.)

Black Expandable Sleeving 1/4" I.D. - Qty 2 ft (Need it.)
Black Expandable Sleeving 3/4" I.D. - Qty 4 ft (Need it.)
Heat Shrink Tubing 1/4 I.D. - Qty 1 ft (Need it.)
Heat Shrink Tubing 3/4 I.D. - Qty 1 ft (Need it.)

M3 Hex Nuts - Qty 8
M3 Flat Washer - Qty 35
Socket Head Screw M3 x 12 - 25285-10 - Qty 8
Socket Head Screw M3 x 8 - 25285-08 - Qty 12
( I don't think you need these. I actually bought these, But never used them.)

NEMA 23 Motors - 25311-02 - Qty 3 (That looks like a good choice, but don't expect to get the advertised torque rating with the grblShield. This is because this particular Stepper motor wants to draw 2.8A per Phase, and the grblShield can only output 2.5A per Phase. All that being said, it should work out just fine especially since you're planning on moving to a different driver configuration later on.)

18 Tooth, ¼ Shaft MXL Pulley - Qty 3 (I am not sure this is necessary?) (You do not need them.)
MXL Belt, ¼” wide - Qty 5 ft (I am not sure if this is necessary?) (You do not need this.)

18 Tooth ¼” Shaft GT2 Pulley - 26054-02 - Qty 3 (Need them.)
GT2 Belt ¼” wide- ft - 26053-01 - Qty 5 ft (Need it. I personally wish I would've bought 6ft.)

Spacers #12 x ¼” Long - 25312-13 - Qty 12 (Need it.)
Button Head Screw M5 x 20 - 25286-15 - Qty 12 (Need it.)
Flat Washer M5 - 25287-01 - Qty 24 (Need it.)
Hex Nut M5 - Qty 12 (Need it.)

I hope this can help you out, and don't ever give up because watching your Shapeoko 2 move under its own power for the first time is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.
Shapeoko 2 #3164 : GRBL, NEMA 23 motors, 350W Spindle, Limit/home switches, Drag chain, X-Carve Upgrade.
DIY-Oko 3 #-1 : LinuxCNC, PC-450 with Super-Pid, Hall Effect Limit/home switches.

marcus4e
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by marcus4e » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:35 am

Caleb,

I appreciate your input on the list of parts I created. I came to the same conclusion as you concerning purchasing extra lengths of cable and belt for building the upgraded NEMA 23 version of Shapeoko 2. The MXL belt and pulley were in the upgraded list provided on the Inventables website. However, I could not find them in the actual build directions for the standard version so it was not clear to me.

Your proposal about using the different stepper shield and pololu drivers is what I am looking for relative to the flexibility it offers as well as the control software. I am not concerned about putting my own electronics together, but I am not sure that I understand what needs to be done relative to how the parts you describe would come together as a whole. My experience with electronics is mainly with RC electric planes, but most of this was put together with clear directions as to what needs to happen. I am willing to try, but I profess that this would be my biggest liability without clear step-by-step directions as to how they all come together. It appears that your recommendation is reasonably priced also which is very attractive to me.

Can you provide a dialog of what the steps are to put your electronic control system upgrade together or know of specific directions that I could follow? I am a retired Chemical Engineer (only one in 3 generations of Engineers all who were Mechanical) and my father claimed that a Chemical Engineer was a Mechanical Engineer with his brains dissolved. But, he gave me an interest in using my hands and things mechanical. But alas, electrical engineering is somewhat foreign to me unless it is kept simple. Any help you could provide would be much appreciated.

Unless you feel that your proposal is easily put together, I will purchase the existing Shapeoko 2 electronics to get started. And then with your guidance over time, I will purchase and put together your proposed control system. A simple description of how they go together with key pictures of your system would get me started. However, I know that you are busy putting your own system together and it may take a period of time to convey this information.

Let me know what you think.

Regards,

Mark

marcus4e
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by marcus4e » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:50 am

Caleb,

Further reading the websites you referenced indicated there were some construction videos for the upgraded shield and drivers you recommended. I will go through them tomorrow and see if I understand how it comes together. He indicates that he also sells the Pololu drivers, but you recommended these drivers from a different website. Is there a reason not to use the ones he sells? Anyway I will explore his videos to better understand how large an undertaking this is.

Mark

marcus4e
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by marcus4e » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:44 pm

Caleb,
I have gone thru the construction videos. It appears it is very doable from a soldering standpoint for me. I have several questions however.

1. I assume you chose the DRV8825 Stepper Motor Drivers for the higher current capabilities? Does this help with spikes or better meet current requirements for NEMA 23 versus NEMA 17 stepper motors? Or does it work better with Mach 3 or Linux CNC? Would the Black Edition A4988 work as well? Do you need heat shields also? Is it worth buying an extra driver board in case one becomes blown during the process of soldering or setup?

2. Will the Shapeoko 2 NEMA 23 stepper motors I plan to purchase work with your proposed upgraded shield and drivers?

3. What power supply do you recommend and where did you buy it? If I was to buy your recommended power supply would it be OK to use with the existing Shapeoko 2 grblShield? What I thought I might to do to get started is to buy the existing Shapeoko 2 system and then upgrade to your recommended system in the future. Thus, if I bought your recommended power supply, I would not have to repurchase it when I upgrade in the future.

4. What circuit board soldering iron and solder do you recommend? I have a soldering iron, but it is not as long and fine tipped as shown in the videos. Plus, his does not appear to melt the board when he touches it. I have used it to wire HO train DCC, but this looks like finer work.

Thanks for all your help! This has been fun researching CNC and what is required. I am looking forward to getting started.

Mark

CalebPeters
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by CalebPeters » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:45 pm

marcus4e wrote: 1. I assume you chose the DRV8825 Stepper Motor Drivers for the higher current capabilities? Does this help with spikes or better meet current requirements for NEMA 23 versus NEMA 17 stepper motors? Or does it work better with Mach 3 or Linux CNC? Would the Black Edition A4988 work as well? Do you need heat shields also? Is it worth buying an extra driver board in case one becomes blown during the process of soldering or setup?
Yes, I would choose the DRV8825s for their higher current capacity. I would do this primarily for current requirements, but also because they have slightly better micro-stepping potential. At this point, I don't have enough experience to tell you if its higher micro-stepping capability is valuable or not. I would think that the Black Edition A4988 would also work just fine. I would recommend that you get heat sinks, and I don't think it's a bad idea to buy an extra driver board just in case something bad happens.
marcus4e wrote: 2. Will the Shapeoko 2 NEMA 23 stepper motors I plan to purchase work with your proposed upgraded shield and drivers?
Yes, and No. The NEMA 23 motors that you are planning on getting require 2.8 amps per phase in order to achieve their full potential. I would imagine that they would still work okay being driven by either the DRV8825 2.2 amps per phase, or the Black Edition A4988 2 amps per phase.
Here's a link to the stepper motor I purchased: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... ith-a-flat
These motors are slightly cheaper than the ones you're planning on buying, but also slightly more powerful. The main advantage they have over the ones inventables are selling is that they are 8 wire instead of 4 wire. This means that they can be configured in three different ways unipolar, bipolar (series), and bipolar (parallel). In my setup I have these motors configured in bipolar (series) which only requires 1.7 amps per phase, so it's well within the capabilities of both Pololu drivers and the grblShield that we are talking about.
The spec sheet for this motor can be found here:
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... -24-8B.pdf

marcus4e wrote: 3. What power supply do you recommend and where did you buy it? If I was to buy your recommended power supply would it be OK to use with the existing Shapeoko 2 grblShield? What I thought I might to do to get started is to buy the existing Shapeoko 2 system and then upgrade to your recommended system in the future. Thus, if I bought your recommended power supply, I would not have to repurchase it when I upgrade in the future.
For the grblShield I would recommend this: http://www.amazon.com/Switching-Power-S ... misc_img_y

For the DRV8825 I would recommend this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/400W-36V ... 22784.html

For the Black Edition A4988 I don't quite know what to recommend. You could definitely use the power supply I recommended for the grblShield, maybe that's another reason why the Black edition A4988 would be a better choice for you. Then again, pushing as much voltage as possible into the stepper driver will result in better performance.

Basically, as long as your power supply can provide enough current for all of your motors, and is within the operating voltage parameters of your chosen stepper driver it will work. From my understanding, the trick is that the higher the voltage being pushed into the stepper driver the faster the stepper motor driver can push the stepper motor to its full speed and torque potentials. So, while a DRV8825 stepper motor driver can operate at 8.2 V the stepper motor attached to it will perform much better if it's operating at 36V or even 45V, which is its ceiling. A couple other things to keep in mind are cost, and over voltage protection. As far as cost goes, the higher the voltage typically means the more money it is going to cost to get the required current capacity. It is much easier, and cheaper to acquire a 24V 15A power supply than it is to find a 36V power supply that can provide enough current for your motors. Whatever the stepper motor driver solution that you choose, keep in mind what the maximum voltage it can handle is. Just to be on the safe side, I wouldn't recommend getting a power supply that operates right on the limit of the stepper driver's voltage capabilities. This is because power supplies can sometimes experience voltage spikes, and if you're already at the voltage limit of the driver then you're more likely to melt the chip.

marcus4e wrote: 4. What circuit board soldering iron and solder do you recommend? I have a soldering iron, but it is not as long and fine tipped as shown in the videos. Plus, his does not appear to melt the board when he touches it. I have used it to wire HO train DCC, but this looks like finer work.
This is the soldering iron I currently use, and love it: http://www.amazon.com/Digital-FX888D-CH ... ords=Hakko

This soldering iron is one that I've used for quite a few years to, and should work fine too: http://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Station ... ering+iron

Honestly though, it's really whatever you're comfortable with, but my Hakko is one of the best things I've ever purchased for working on electronics.
As far as solder goes, I think I used some .015" silver solder that I had laying around.
Shapeoko 2 #3164 : GRBL, NEMA 23 motors, 350W Spindle, Limit/home switches, Drag chain, X-Carve Upgrade.
DIY-Oko 3 #-1 : LinuxCNC, PC-450 with Super-Pid, Hall Effect Limit/home switches.

marcus4e
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by marcus4e » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:08 pm

Caleb,

Thanks for information. Several quick follow-up questions based on your information.

1. Were the NEMA 23 stepper motors that you recommended the ones you used to provide the necessary hardware to mount them?

2. Net, there is no one power supply I could buy that supports the grblShield and the Shield upgrade you recommend? If not, I probably will go with the 24v supply.

3. I may elect to go with the Black Edition driver chips since they are what he supplies? Do they also support LinuxCNC or Mach 3?

4. Once you have the shield board soldered and set up what are the next steps to get it functional with the stepper motors? Software and etc to operate.

Mark

CalebPeters
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by CalebPeters » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:24 pm

marcus4e wrote: 1. Were the NEMA 23 stepper motors that you recommended the ones you used to provide the necessary hardware to mount them?
Yes.
marcus4e wrote: 2. Net, there is no one power supply I could buy that supports the grblShield and the Shield upgrade you recommend? If not, I probably will go with the 24v supply.
The 24v supply that I linked to will work with both.
marcus4e wrote: 3. I may elect to go with the Black Edition driver chips since they are what he supplies? Do they also support LinuxCNC or Mach 3?
Yes, they will work with both.
marcus4e wrote: 4. Once you have the shield board soldered and set up what are the next steps to get it functional with the stepper motors? Software and etc to operate.
Unfortunately I'm not familiar with GRBL, so you will have to consult the wiki or someone more familiar with it on how to configure that part.
Shapeoko 2 #3164 : GRBL, NEMA 23 motors, 350W Spindle, Limit/home switches, Drag chain, X-Carve Upgrade.
DIY-Oko 3 #-1 : LinuxCNC, PC-450 with Super-Pid, Hall Effect Limit/home switches.

marcus4e
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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by marcus4e » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:02 pm

Caleb,

1. In question 4, I was referring to the setup and software required if I was to use your upgraded reactive substance shield with the drivers, not the grblShield. What are the steps you take to get it operational? I am actively considering proceeding with the upgraded board.

2. With the upgraded board do I buy the Arduino Uno with GRBL installed or the one without it being installed? Is there a cheaper source for the Arduino Uno than Inventables?

3. I am proceeding to make my purchases today. Thanks so much for your input.

I will let you know as I make progress in building the CNC....

Mark

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Re: Caleb's Shapeoko 2 #3164

Post by cvoinescu » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:22 pm

marcus4e wrote:1. In question 4, I was referring to the setup and software required if I was to use your upgraded reactive substance shield with the drivers, not the grblShield. What are the steps you take to get it operational? I am actively considering proceeding with the upgraded board.
There is no difference at all from the software point of view. Hardware-wise, once you've plugged the drivers in and set the jumpers for dual-Y, everything else is the same (you plug it into the Arduino Uno the same way as the grblShield, and you connect the motors and supply pretty much the same way.
marcus4e wrote:2. With the upgraded board do I buy the Arduino Uno with GRBL installed or the one without it being installed? Is there a cheaper source for the Arduino Uno than Inventables?
You can buy a cheaper Arduino Uno clone from a number of places, but in many of those cases the Ardunio people would not get any money for their work. Electronic component distributors (DigiKey, Newark, Mouser) also sell genuine Arduinos, so it may be worth checking their prices. Installing GRBL is very easy and only takes a few minutes -- but it's your call.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

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