will1384's Shapeoko 2

will1384
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:48 am

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by will1384 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:02 am

I decided to try 3D Printing, here is a list of parts I plan on getting / using

MBE Extruder v9 with 12v heater cartridge
PID Digital Temperature Controller
25a SSR DC-DC Relay and HeatSink
Computer Power Supply, ATX or Dell Optiplex power supply brick, I have both.
A Chinese 4-Axis blue CNC controller box, uses TB6560 chips, has individual driver cards
6" X 6" Heatbed PCB 12v ---- Will get later
Borosilicate glass plate, 6" X 6" ---- Will get later

I had got the blue Chinese CNC controller box for my Shapeoko 2, but then I found out that its prone to failure and is not designed correctly, one of the members of cnczone.com listed some fixes, and I did most of them, I had to move around a few SMD resistors, replace a SMD capacitor, and add some TVS Diodes, another thing I disliked about the blue Chinese CNC controller box is the lack of info about the jumpers on the driver cards, but I was able to figure it out.

I hope to use the forth axis of the blue Chinese CNC controller box for the extruder stepper, and use the PID Digital Temperature Controller, SSR Relay, and Computer Power Supply to power and control the extruder's heater cartridge.

I want to use Mach3, but I also have LinuxCNC installed, I wonder whats easier to use for this setup.

I plan on bolting the MBE Extruder to the Bosch Colt CNC Mount and leaving it installed.

Any tips or suggestions :?:

cvoinescu
Posts: 4442
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Camberley, UK
Contact:

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by cvoinescu » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:55 pm

Speaking not from personal experience, but purely based on the volume of complaints, modifications, tweaks and fixes for the QU-BD MBE extruders on the buildlog.net forum, where many people attracted by the low price tried to use it with the ORD Bot, I would recommend against it, especially if this is your first attempt at 3-D printing.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

wz9v
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:08 pm

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by wz9v » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:50 pm

The E3D hotend is pricey but highly recommended. People seem to have good success with a real J-Head extruder and not the clones. I'm still building my 3D printer a Mini Kossel and intend to use the E3D hotend for it.
Shapeoko 2 - Mechanical kit 4731
Z-Axis Acme Screw Upgrade / Makita RT0701C / Re-enforced Y and X-Axis / External Belts on Y / Extrusion work top

will1384
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:48 am

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by will1384 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:24 pm

cvoinescu wrote:Speaking not from personal experience, but purely based on the volume of complaints, modifications, tweaks and fixes for the QU-BD MBE extruders on the buildlog.net forum, where many people attracted by the low price tried to use it with the ORD Bot, I would recommend against it, especially if this is your first attempt at 3-D printing.
LOL I got in a rush last night and ordered it, after I read your post I started looking for fixes, I found this page

http://www.buildlog.net/wiki/doku.php?i ... provements

One problem it lists is the "Drive Gear", you can get a replacement cheap, I have one on order.

Another page I found talks about the extruder jamming because of the feed tube

http://www.mastersketchup.com/qubd-extruder-jam-fix/

I found a "J-Head Lite Kit" that has the same size M6x1 stainless steal tube that MBE Extruder uses but its already modified and has a PTFE tube liner, copper heat sink, and got extra parts I might need, and some extra PTFE Teflon Tube with a matching end mill and drill bit on order.

I spent an extra $40 because I was impatient, and I still may have to make the spring tensioned filament idler.
wz9v wrote:The E3D hotend is pricey but highly recommended. People seem to have good success with a real J-Head extruder and not the clones. I'm still building my 3D printer a Mini Kossel and intend to use the E3D hotend for it.
I can not buy parts from outside the USA, some credit restriction :roll:

Now I need to figure out software and how to mount it to my Shapeoko 2.

wz9v
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:08 pm

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by wz9v » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:02 pm

There is a US supplier of the E3D hotend.

http://www.filastruder.com
Shapeoko 2 - Mechanical kit 4731
Z-Axis Acme Screw Upgrade / Makita RT0701C / Re-enforced Y and X-Axis / External Belts on Y / Extrusion work top

will1384
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:48 am

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by will1384 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:57 pm

wz9v wrote:There is a US supplier of the E3D hotend.

http://www.filastruder.com
Thanks for the link.

Mgilbride
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:28 am

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by Mgilbride » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:57 pm

Hey Will,

Couple of comments on your build (whis is looking sweet).

I would not coil your USB cable and zip tie it to your power supply for two reasons. 1.) creating loops of wire period, especially near a power source can create an induction loop. 2.) you really want to keep your signal lines as far from sources of interference as possible. A power source is definitely one potential source of interference. I recommend all of this after fighting tooth and nail to eliminate false limit trips and GRBL freezes from my system. Paying attention to these and other details has helped make huge improvements.

With regard to your axis problems... I would look at the Z axis upgrades and associated discussions. This axis is One of the hardest to get right and perhaps the most important on a CNC router, mill, etc. You want that axis rock solid reliable, strong, and fast or you are going to face some headaches. In my opinion, M8 rod is a good value for a 3D printer application of shapeoko. Not for CNC mills that are using these fairly heavy little trim routers that folks (including me) are using. A 3d printer makes very small, infrequent Z moves and can afford to be slow as long as it is reliable and accurate. SO if you stick purely with your most recent foray into 3D printing, maybe that's fine. But if you want to reliably use other tools as well it may be more important to solve all of your z axis problems. I would solve them either way.

All this is to suggest that at a minimum you may want to drop the shimming of your coupler. The few couplers I have used have two set screws at each end. If yours does not I would replace it with one that does. One of these screws engages the clamping action of the coupler. The other seats against the shaft. I think creating a flat for that second screw to seat against is a good idea. But you may get away with seating it firmly against the rod. Just don't over tighten or strip anything. The other end of the coupler probably works this way with your motor shaft. Or at least it should. Seat the second set screw against the flat of the shaft and then clamp with the second screw. You should not loosen these set screws or, in my opinion, shim them.

I think your z axis wobble comes from the fact that this is a very low cost implementation of threaded rod that may not be perfectly straight and is not supported on both ends. That rod is likely whipping back and forth a bit as it spins during part of the travel of your z axis. And it may not be perfectly straight. You may reduce a good portion of your wobble by loosening the M5 bolts holding your motor mount/ bearing plates and running your z axis to the top (by hand) and re tightening the bolts. You may need to try this several times and again read the z axis upgrade discussions and product descriptions. You are trying to deal with a lot in tuning this axis. Even with an upgrade kit you will face alignment challenges as the flexible coupler may interfere with you aligning your lead screw optimally to fully eliminate binding and wobble. But it is worth the effort! Last point. If you do go on a rampage upgrading your z axis, educate yourself fully. The upgrade kits are a nice, effective product but they are not perfect. You can probably make substantial improvements over and above what those kits offer as long as you are willing to spend the $$. Which you probably will in the end one way or another.

Hope this helps and good luck.

will1384
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:48 am

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by will1384 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:55 am

Mgilbride wrote:Hey Will,

Couple of comments on your build (whis is looking sweet).

I would not coil your USB cable and zip tie it to your power supply for two reasons. 1.) creating loops of wire period, especially near a power source can create an induction loop. 2.) you really want to keep your signal lines as far from sources of interference as possible. A power source is definitely one potential source of interference. I recommend all of this after fighting tooth and nail to eliminate false limit trips and GRBL freezes from my system. Paying attention to these and other details has helped make huge improvements.

With regard to your axis problems... I would look at the Z axis upgrades and associated discussions. This axis is One of the hardest to get right and perhaps the most important on a CNC router, mill, etc. You want that axis rock solid reliable, strong, and fast or you are going to face some headaches. In my opinion, M8 rod is a good value for a 3D printer application of shapeoko. Not for CNC mills that are using these fairly heavy little trim routers that folks (including me) are using. A 3d printer makes very small, infrequent Z moves and can afford to be slow as long as it is reliable and accurate. SO if you stick purely with your most recent foray into 3D printing, maybe that's fine. But if you want to reliably use other tools as well it may be more important to solve all of your z axis problems. I would solve them either way.

All this is to suggest that at a minimum you may want to drop the shimming of your coupler. The few couplers I have used have two set screws at each end. If yours does not I would replace it with one that does. One of these screws engages the clamping action of the coupler. The other seats against the shaft. I think creating a flat for that second screw to seat against is a good idea. But you may get away with seating it firmly against the rod. Just don't over tighten or strip anything. The other end of the coupler probably works this way with your motor shaft. Or at least it should. Seat the second set screw against the flat of the shaft and then clamp with the second screw. You should not loosen these set screws or, in my opinion, shim them.

I think your z axis wobble comes from the fact that this is a very low cost implementation of threaded rod that may not be perfectly straight and is not supported on both ends. That rod is likely whipping back and forth a bit as it spins during part of the travel of your z axis. And it may not be perfectly straight. You may reduce a good portion of your wobble by loosening the M5 bolts holding your motor mount/ bearing plates and running your z axis to the top (by hand) and re tightening the bolts. You may need to try this several times and again read the z axis upgrade discussions and product descriptions. You are trying to deal with a lot in tuning this axis. Even with an upgrade kit you will face alignment challenges as the flexible coupler may interfere with you aligning your lead screw optimally to fully eliminate binding and wobble. But it is worth the effort! Last point. If you do go on a rampage upgrading your z axis, educate yourself fully. The upgrade kits are a nice, effective product but they are not perfect. You can probably make substantial improvements over and above what those kits offer as long as you are willing to spend the $$. Which you probably will in the end one way or another.

Hope this helps and good luck.

I may replace the USB cable with a shorter one later, but I have had no problems with it yet, I have to fix the heatsinks I used on the grblShield, I used some Xbox360 heatsinks, and they had some sticky pads on the heatsinks, the sticky pads start to fail at the temperature that the grblShield works at, I will replace the USB cable at the same time.

The threaded rod is straight, but the way the coupler clamps down on the threaded rod it becomes off center, also my threaded rod is slightly smaller than 8mm.

I was able to remove the wobble by wrapping the Teflon tape around the threaded rod to make up the difference between the 8mm hole of the flexible coupler and the slightly smaller threaded rod, but under load it failed.

I am going to get the Z-Axis upgrade when I can.

will1384
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:48 am

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by will1384 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:28 am

I had got the "MBE Extruder v9" 3D print head and found out later all the problems it has, so I also ordered the parts to fix it:

MK7 Extruder Gear Pulley - get the short one, not the longer one, cost $8

Makerbot Extruder Upgrade - from eBay, cost $12

M6x26 Rod Barrel, and PTFE tube 4mm OD, 2mm ID to make your own, or "30mm QU-BD PTFE lined Barrel" from eBay, cost $6 to $17

Aluminum Heater Block for Hotend, got has extra parts, and modified for use, from eBay, cost $2

Here is what the modified "MBE Extruder v9" 3D print head looks like:


This is the "Makerbot Extruder Upgrade"
Image

This is the modified "MBE Extruder v9" 3D print head attached to a MDF plug cut to fit my Bosch Colt mount, and a home made handle.
Image

The bottom, I modified a hotend block I got from eBay to fit the thermocouple of the PID Temperature Controller I plan on using, I have not installed the nozzle yet, but when I install the nozzle it sticks out below the Bosch Colt mount.
Image

Top, I should be able to quickly remove the 3D print head when I want to use the router.
Image

The front view, I hope the "MBE Extruder v9" metal mounting plate keeps the head level.
Image

I also modified a ATX power supply to power the hotend and heatbed.
Image


Now if I can get Mach3 running correctly, :cry:

will1384
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:48 am

Re: will1384's Shapeoko 2

Post by will1384 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:02 am

I got more done today :D


I cut some plastic away from the Makerbot Extruder Upgrade

Image

Then I drilled out a M6 bolt, and made the top act like a funnel.

Image

The Makerbot Extruder Upgrade should push the filament threw the modified M6 bolt.

Image

I added some parts from the J-Head Lite Kit.

Image

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This is what I use to power and control the heat, ATX power supply, PID Digital Temperature Controller, and 25a SSR DC-DC Relay with HeatSink.

Image

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And my first 3D Print :D

Image

Yea its not very good, but it works!!!

I printed a 10mm square at different temperature settings.

Image

I need to find the sweet spot for the temperature settings, and I think I may be losing some steps, so I need to adjust the velocity and acceleration settings under "motor tuning" in Mach3.

I also had problems with Mach3 were it acted like the work area was different than from what I told Slic3r, likely I forgot to configure something in Mach3.

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