ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

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WillAdams
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ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by WillAdams » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:48 pm

Did I miss something?

The original machine was described as having a 3.5" Z-axis work area (http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/About): The work area is about 8" x 8" x 3.5".

While the new one (http://blog.inventables.com/2013/10/sha ... order.html) has shrunk to: Working area is expanded to about 12" by 12" by 2.5"

Is that latter a typo, a more conservative estimate, a consequence of the new Z-axis design, or a revision of specs to bring the machine more in line w/ reality?
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rabiddog
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by rabiddog » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:01 pm

I noticed on the video with Edward that it says the there is now nearly 3 1/2" of clearance (although to be fair I read the tape on the video as 3 3/8") on checking my machine I found it had 3 and 1/2" already, however, in my experience which the revers z axis set up is limited to the reach of the spindle you are using. my Chinese spindle set up leaves me with a comfortable 3" clearance which I am happy with not sure if you using a dremel clone whether that could be increased. the original configuration allowed a full movement of 3 1/2" if you set the spindle correctly upon it and i imagine the version 2 suffers from this similar limitation as mine

Craig
Red Shapeoko Number 463. 600mm Y axis, Dual Y, 375mm, double X axis, reversed Z axis, 400w chinese dc spindle
Also now Shapeoko 1347 bought off ebay configuration undecided

northbear
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by northbear » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:15 pm

Taking a look at the model posted on github https://github.com/shapeoko/Shapeoko_2

The clearance below the x axis plate measures 3.437"
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Travel of the z axis should be 7.979"-3.937" = 4.042"
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Capture 2.JPG
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northbear
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by northbear » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:26 pm

Of course the travel may be limited by the spindle hitting the new z axis motor mount
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rabiddog
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by rabiddog » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:29 pm

Exactly yes but you would still need clearance on the x axis plate so in my eyes 3 and 3/8" is what you shuld be thinking dont you agree? but still depends on the spindle and cutter you use
Craig
Red Shapeoko Number 463. 600mm Y axis, Dual Y, 375mm, double X axis, reversed Z axis, 400w chinese dc spindle
Also now Shapeoko 1347 bought off ebay configuration undecided

cvoinescu
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by cvoinescu » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:03 pm

There's another intrinsic difference in Z travel between the two versions. Sadly, I can't upload a picture right now, so here go a thousand words instead:

For Shapeoko 1, the top position of the Z axis has the Z rail barely above the bottom of the X carriage. This means that, even if you have an endmill or a drill 85 mm (3.5") long and the X carriage clears the bed by 85 mm (3.5"), you can't mill a pocket or drill a hole all the way through 85 mm (3.5") thick stock, because the Z rail will hit the workpiece after the first 10 mm (0.4"). You can do pockets and facing from all sides, without the rail getting in the way, on stock only a little more than half as thick as the clearance under the gantry -- just over 50 mm (2"), if I recall correctly.

For Shapeoko 2, even at the bottom Z position, nothing descends below the bottom of the X carriage. This means you can easily use the full Z travel for drilling, pockets and such -- so even if the travel is now less, which I doubt it is, you can still mill and drill thicker stock than you could on the Shapeoko 1.

In other words, the Shapeoko 1 has a variable clearance under the gantry, which reduces as the Z axis descends. You get 10 mm of "free" Z axis travel, and for the rest you have to pay in vertical clearance (one for one). The Shapeoko 2 has constant clearance under the gantry, independent of the Z axis position.

Unfortunately, there's a little rub -- as northbear pointed out, a tall spindle hits the Z motor, which does not happen in the Shapeoko 1. That's probably why one of Edward's earlier designs of the inverted Z axis had the motor further back, and used a belt to drive the screw.

Lastly, if you use the machine for additive manufacturing (3-D printing), rather than subtractive (milling), the rail will not be getting in the way, so both machines can build objects as tall as the clearance under the X carriage or the Z travel, whichever is less.
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rabiddog
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by rabiddog » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:34 pm

theres nothing to stop you turning the z axis around on the shapeoko one, i have done it all you need is the small maker plate to mount the gear on, unless you have a long milling bit tho you still cant get 3.5" and your going to hit the same limitation on the version two.I dont reall see a difference between the to in all honesty just the reversed z looks cooler lol
Craig
Red Shapeoko Number 463. 600mm Y axis, Dual Y, 375mm, double X axis, reversed Z axis, 400w chinese dc spindle
Also now Shapeoko 1347 bought off ebay configuration undecided

Improbable Construct
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by Improbable Construct » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:37 pm

The new configuration is much stiffer but it poses some problems. Mainly height and spindle clearance on the bearing blocks.
I am working on a new set of parts for the Shapeoko 2.
If you are going to use the DW660 my new mounts move the spindle out just enough that you can run the carriage all the way up.
I have redesigned the bottom bearing plate for the ACME screw to work with the new configuration and allow maximum downward travel as well.
A new plate to allow use of a NEMA 23 motor without limiting travel is turning out to be a bit more of a challenge but, I think I have a solution.

Really, if you needed more height on the Z axis you could gain 1-1/4" or so by putting the waste board on the bottom of the extrusions.
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Gadroc
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by Gadroc » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:14 am

Are you selling the new mounts for the DW660? Or are the plans available yet?

I have a 2 on order and a DW660 sitting here waiting to go on it. I have a block of 1/2" HDPE ready to make mounts with my dremel temporarily hooked up, but all the mount plans I've found are for the Shapeoko 1.

Improbable Construct
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Re: ShapeOko 2 Z-axis change?

Post by Improbable Construct » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:26 am

I haven't published the plans for the new DW660 mounts yet.
I am still working on making sure they will work with the new Z axis plates.
I hope to have them (and the ACME screw) for sale mid December.
I will release the drawings sometime before that.
Shapeoko #Classified some of the bolts may be original parts.
Shapeoko 1 # ???? Stainless plates, still in the box.
Shapeoko 2 # 3926 not stock
Shapeoko 3 # 0003
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