shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

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cvoinescu
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Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by cvoinescu » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:04 pm

Isn't that image pilfered from Inventables? I looked and I could not see any license or anything that gives anyone the right to use images from inventables.com on their own sites, and there's a copyright notice at the bottom of each page. MyHobby-CNC may have permission, but I doubt it -- they also use some of my images without permission (compare, for example, theirs and mine -- I have the higher resolution version, so guess who copied whose -- I have the original camera file, too). I'm all for open source and all, but it's copyright that makes the open licenses possible, so we should respect that. Even when the design is open source, the product images and website copy are not, unless explicitly made so.

Edit: I have contacted them again through the form on their store to ask them to remove my images from their site.

Edit: The owner of myHobby-CNC.de has responded quickly to my email this time, but he implied that the images were not worth protecting. I pointed out it was the principle rather than the (small but non-negligible) amount of work that went into making my images, and asked him to remove them anyway.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

cvoinescu
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Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by cvoinescu » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:45 am

Quick update: I checked yesterday, and all but one of the offending images have been replaced.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

sigmey
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Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by sigmey » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:15 pm

Hi!

I am thinking about buying from myhobby-cnc.de and found this thread.
I totally agree that intelectual property rights must be respected in open source pojects.

Sad he thinks they don't matter...

By the way: One ting I couldn't find on the Homepage are the documents about his modified version of the MakerSlide.
Any one knows where to find the plans? According to the MakerSlide license he must publish them, no?
Maybe the MakerSlide creators should know about this?

Bye
Sig

Anon
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Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:54 am

Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by Anon » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:11 pm

So, the base question of this thread. Should I order from this eshop or not? AFAIK the MakerSlide enhancement is not really an issue but I'm no CC specialist...

Any idea?

neptunier
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:46 am

Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by neptunier » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:31 pm

i would look really closely at the way he puts the set together and compare it to the one from the shop in england. now he seems to have his own photos so you should be able to see what you get. i found many details not satisfactory, the z axis makerslide profile only 200mm long, not 250mm as the original, the belt fixing and so on.
but it is up to you.

michael

cvoinescu
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Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by cvoinescu » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:45 pm

The original Shapeoko Z axis is 200 mm long. The eShapeoko has a 250 mm Z axis because it has the wheels much further apart, and I didn't want to lose any travel.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

neptunier
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Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by neptunier » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:17 am

thanks for clarifying this, i did not know that.

rholze
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Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by rholze » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:48 pm

Greetings to all hobbyists,

I didn’t mean to justify myself in this forum. I’m also not interested in non-technical discussions. I’ve passed the 50 and for myself I think I have the „inner serenity“.

In my regular occupation I‘m working in a bank and running my shop as a sideline. The prices of my offered kits and components are including the purchasing prices, the rent for my workshop and the time I spend for compilation of orders. I don’t do this to make the big buck. Therefore I’m not doing anything I’m not absolutely convinced in. 90% of my sold kits are individual ones. It takes a long time to customize and packing the orders. I’m not a competitor to the established merchants mainly selling complete kits. My idea was to give the hobbyists in Germany the possibility to buy open hardware parts and kits in the european area.

My changes on the kit, on which I’m very confident of, are not rocket science. The changes I’ve made, are clearly described and illustrated. Only for not hurting any licences, there are no CAD drawings or G-Codes published.

I started my shop using foreign images. This was not okay. After the reports from inventables and amber, I replaced the images immediately. But I think, my customers are interested in my products, not in pictures of them. So feel free to use the pictures from my site if you want to.

My imagination was to sell kits of items. Not final products or disassambled finished devices. I try only to simplify the purchasing of items for the customer. It’s not my purpose to take thinking and reflection away from them. My motto is „the journey is the destination“. Only a few customers overrate there talents. But feel free to communicate it loudly.

So lets speak about the problem with my „favourite“ customer (neptunier, why a pseudonym?). He has been my very first customer. He wanted to have a kit before the start of the online shop nearly before christmas. I then informed him that there was still a sheet missing and I would forward the sheet later and there would be no more additional information. He accepted. Then I sent the kit as fast as possible. There was only one week left to christmas. Without any communication between us before, neptunier started two weeks later a dispute on paypal and reclaimed 150 €. He didn’t accepted severeal concessions from my side. Also the complete redemption of the kit wasn’t accepted by neptunier. He then let an ultimatum (by paypal) pass away. After several weeks of anger and incomprehension about this, I saw myself still not doing anything in the duty. All this is provable by myself by the email traffic (in german).

There are only a handful customers of this type luckily. With most of my customers I have a extensive friendly and smoothly email traffic. Everyone is invited to make his own experience.

I did not involve myself in this forum, because english writing is very difficult for me.

For this, I started a german forum and hope this will support the community better. Feel free to use it. The forum is for all the users, that can express themselves better in german language.

Please try to understand my situation. This will be the only post on this.

Kind regards

Ronald Holze
myhobby-CNC

cvoinescu
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Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by cvoinescu » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:13 pm

Thank you for posting this, and I'm genuinely sorry that the language barrier will not permit more frequent conversation. I think that what you're doing is a Good Thing. It's a pity that a single but well publicized dispute can cast such a large shadow on one's reputation.

That said, it seems that you have not given much thought to licenses, trademarks and such. That's understandable, if your main focus is helping others build things, but keeping Open Source open relies on paying attention to such details. Only with this goal in mind, and not with the intention to detract from the laudable goals of your project, I am going to point these problems out.

Shapeoko is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license.
rholze wrote:Only for not hurting any licences, there are no CAD drawings or G-Codes published.
The license of the Shapeoko requires any changes to be published. You must share the drawings for your changes, or you're in breach of the license. Edward shares the designs with anyone, but, in return, asks that anyone using them also shares their work. On the plus side, anyone using your drawings must also publish theirs, so we all learn and benefit from each other's work.

Another very important point is that the license applies only to the design of the machine. As you know, it does not cover photographs (unless that's how the design is specified, I guess), nor does it extend to the use of the name. In other words, you can't call your machine a Shapeoko unless Edward says you can. Naming the derivatives is a tough problem and I don't have an easy solution for it.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

AlBorland
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Location: Austria

Re: shapeoko from myhobby-cnc.de

Post by AlBorland » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:36 pm

Just out of curiosity, and only about legal use, not about ethics:
cvoinescu wrote:In other words, you can't call your machine a Shapeoko unless Edward says you can. Naming the derivatives is a tough problem and I don't have an easy solution for it.
It is my understanding that only a registered trademark preserves a name, and I wanted to ask if there is another kind of protection for names.
The point is moot now, because when searching for trademark Shapeoko just now, I found that Carbide-3D LLC has applied for a trademark on Nov 19, 2014. So yes, when the registration is confirmed, they can disallow the use of the name Shapeoko, but probably not outside of the US, not for anything besides the registered commercial sectors, and I'm not sure about prior use before the application date (it's been a few years since I had to deal with this for my own trademarks).
Shapeoko2, 4xNEMA23, tinyg, Kress 1050, various Z axis modifications

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