Hardcoat OpenRail

Talk about all things CNC
benjamd
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:03 pm

Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by benjamd » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:35 pm

Hey all,

So I know that OpenRail discontinued their Type3 hardcoat version of their rail, and this isn't really very good for those of us after accuracy since it means there's no way we can switch to the steel v-wheels without damaging our rail and having to replace it periodically. However, there's no reason why we can't get the rail hardcoated ourselves is there?

I'm just wondering if anyone would be interested in getting a bunch of rail hardcoated? I've contacted a few companies to explore prices, but its clear that we'd get a much better rate at some sort of scale.

Anyone up for it?

samc99us
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by samc99us » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:53 pm

I'm interested. I'd also be very interested in getting steel v-rail made up in the same profile as the openrail.
Modified Shapeoko 2: 1500mm fully supported y-axis, 1000 mm 4060 x-axis, ACME Belt Drive Z-axis, Dewalt DNP611, full aluminum t-slot table, 4x NEMA23 180 oz/in stepper motors driven by a G540

benjamd
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by benjamd » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:55 pm

Now thats an interesting idea sam...

Any idea how one would go about that?

cchristianson
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:56 am

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by cchristianson » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:05 am

Id like to chime in on this one since I have dealt with this also.. I literally bought up the very last couple of sticks of hard coated open rail that open builds had (Sorry), so I lucked out.... but after using my machine in its upgraded state a fair amount, Ive noticed that the hardcoat is still starting to deteriorate a little bit in some places. It is happening where the most pressure is placed; the top rail closest to the z axis, and the bottom rail on the opposite side. It seems to be wearing more in the center of the rail, which makes sense, as both wheels cross the section most frequently. That being said, I love the setup; it is VERY rigid, and it isnt deteriorating so quickly that I am super worried about it at this point. But I would say that anybody that is set on switching to metal wheels may want to consider trying the steel rail route, unless you want to get enough openrail hardcoated to use it as a consumable (which may not be the worst thing if you get a decent deal). If you guys do get some openrail hardcoated, you could probably count me in for some replacements for when I do need them down the line...
-my two cents

samc99us
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by samc99us » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:24 pm

To be honest, no. I suspect it would be cost prohibitive in small quantities.

What I suggest exploring is using off the the shelf vrd1 rail that is compatible with the openbuilds steel v-wheel (least expensive on the market, but not sure of the quality).

My first foray into steel v-rail will likely be on the Z-axis. Grainger sells this: http://www.grainger.com/product/PBC-Lin ... s_pp=false
One would need to mill an adapter plate to go between that rail and Misumi HFS5 series extrusion, but this can be done out of aluminum on a stock SO2. Of course the steel rail likely needs to be cut to fit a stock axis, but at $8.54 each for a 12.5" section, it isn't too bad. The reason I have been holding off is I want to use a piece of HFS5-8020 for the z-axis, and this requires a custom motor mount plate on the x-axis. What I will likely do is re-design the motor mount plates to accept this rail and also to run 8x v-wheels. The OX uses 8x wheels per plate, and I would estimate the v-wheels they are using to be almost twice as stiff as the inventables v-wheels! Their delrin v-wheels are much beefier than the inventables delrin v-wheels, but they are a little looser fitting on the bearings than my batch of inventables wheels.
Modified Shapeoko 2: 1500mm fully supported y-axis, 1000 mm 4060 x-axis, ACME Belt Drive Z-axis, Dewalt DNP611, full aluminum t-slot table, 4x NEMA23 180 oz/in stepper motors driven by a G540

cvoinescu
Posts: 4442
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Camberley, UK
Contact:

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by cvoinescu » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:49 pm

If it helps anyone, with some luck, I'll have hard anodized MakerSlide in the store again, in 2-3 weeks.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

danimal
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:53 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by danimal » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:00 am

samc99us wrote:To be honest, no. I suspect it would be cost prohibitive in small quantities.

What I suggest exploring is using off the the shelf vrd1 rail that is compatible with the openbuilds steel v-wheel (least expensive on the market, but not sure of the quality).

My first foray into steel v-rail will likely be on the Z-axis. Grainger sells this: http://www.grainger.com/product/PBC-Lin ... s_pp=false
One would need to mill an adapter plate to go between that rail and Misumi HFS5 series extrusion, but this can be done out of aluminum on a stock SO2. Of course the steel rail likely needs to be cut to fit a stock axis, but at $8.54 each for a 12.5" section, it isn't too bad. The reason I have been holding off is I want to use a piece of HFS5-8020 for the z-axis, and this requires a custom motor mount plate on the x-axis. What I will likely do is re-design the motor mount plates to accept this rail and also to run 8x v-wheels. The OX uses 8x wheels per plate, and I would estimate the v-wheels they are using to be almost twice as stiff as the inventables v-wheels! Their delrin v-wheels are much beefier than the inventables delrin v-wheels, but they are a little looser fitting on the bearings than my batch of inventables wheels.
I have shopped everywhere for steel v rail and that is about as good as it gets price wise. Most places have minimum orders that are in the thousands of dollars. I would be interested to see what you come up with and what the total cost is. Linear rail and drive blocks are not too expensive, but it just takes assembling all the parts. I think that my total axis cost is around $100 - 120 for linear rail including the Nema 23 motor. I did chose to over engineer the hell of of some parts though so it could be done for much cheaper if you watched Ebay and reused the carriage plates.
Shapeoko # 1458

RT0701C Spindle || dual y motor || x axis nema23 with custom carriage 1000mm length || z axis nema23 linear rail upgrade with 1/2-10 ACME

samc99us
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by samc99us » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:58 pm

Danimal,

I think I am basically going to follow IC's build, but use steel rail instead of hardcoated openrail. Trouble is it also requires a new X-axis setup. That results in a total of 3 plates to be milled.
Modified Shapeoko 2: 1500mm fully supported y-axis, 1000 mm 4060 x-axis, ACME Belt Drive Z-axis, Dewalt DNP611, full aluminum t-slot table, 4x NEMA23 180 oz/in stepper motors driven by a G540

danimal
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:53 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by danimal » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:11 pm

I used .25 aluminum plate for my new carriage plates. It feels roughly the same weight, but more rigid than the laser cut stainless. I know that there is a yield strength calculation for comparing the strength of aluminum to stainless steel, but it was just easier to double the thickness and add some inset reliefs for the mounting screws. I think that IC's build is great. I wanted to go that way as well but then the hard coat open rail went out of stock everywhere before I could order. I calculated about $450 for the stainless rails and wheels to convert the whole machine which at the time was prohibitive.
Shapeoko # 1458

RT0701C Spindle || dual y motor || x axis nema23 with custom carriage 1000mm length || z axis nema23 linear rail upgrade with 1/2-10 ACME

benjamd
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: Hardcoat OpenRail

Post by benjamd » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:56 pm

So it looks like you are right and that for small quantities getting the rail hard anodized is definitely cost prohibitive. 10m of rail came to $150!

I'll look into the vrd1 rail instead then when it comes time to start going more accurate. I'm hoping I can make do with the openrail for now. Thanks for the discussion guys.

Post Reply