Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

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goopyplastic
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Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by goopyplastic » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:06 pm

I have heard many places that a mill and a 3d printer while similar have different design criteria that are often at odds with each other. If one were to build up a shapeoko as a 3d printer, are there flaws or detriments to the design that would limit it's precision or usefulness in that regard? I don't really see how it would be much different than say an ord bot etc..

I'm thinking of a makergear extruder, printrboard, sparkfun .9 degree steppers... but am curious if I should limited myself to milling type operations.

Will Winder
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by Will Winder » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:38 am

My understanding is that 3D printers need to be fast and rigidity is not so important, while for a CNC milling machine it is the opposite.

However since the ShapeOko uses belts instead of a lead screw for the X/Y axis so it can move pretty fast. I would think it is a relatively good platform for a 3D printer, except for the Z axis which at 3.5" is fairly low for most 3D printers.
ShapeOko #367: Dual-Y drive, Belt on outside, 1000mm Y-Axis, DW660 Spindle, Nema-23 X/Y motors.

Primary developer on Universal Gcode Sender.

goopyplastic
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by goopyplastic » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:47 am

I believe I read on here that extending the Z would be pretty easy, new slide and threaded rod, and that it should suffice for 3d printing because the print nozzle doesn't experience lateral forces like a mill end would.

I imagine a bed as a z axis would probably be preferred as longer Z slide adds more weight to move around. I'm ok with slow printing though I wouldn't be doing a whole lot, I think if I really got into it I would look at an UP! or a M2. I just have this feeling that splurging $1500 for a 3D printer before I decide if it is actually all that useful for me is probably a bad idea. If I can play with a print head and controller for $200 and get decent results I should probably go that route first.

cvoinescu
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by cvoinescu » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:43 am

I have ordered everything I need to turn my ShapeOko into a 3D printer. I'm in batch #3, so it will be a while yet before I can tell you how well that works...

I agree with the assessments by Will Winder and goopyplastic. I expect ShapeOko will make a decent but not great 3D printer. One point against it, and a major difference between it and the ORD Bot, is that ShapeOko moves a lot of mass (motors etc) around. The ORD bot has stationary Y and Z motors, and moves the X motor only along the Z axis, which is very slow-moving, so it makes no difference. It moves the print platform (and print) along Y and the extrusion head (which includes a motor) along X. That makes the moving masses on X and Y very small and about equal (or at least not wildly different). It definitely looks like the ORD Bot was designed to be fast.

ShapeOko was designed to be as simple as possible. For instance, the Y motor(s) could have been stationary, with a closed loop belt, and that would have reduced the mass to move on Y, without compromising rigidity. However, that would have been a more complex machine, so the simpler version won. For a milling machine, the difference is minimal. For a 3D printer, it matters.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

edwardrford
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by edwardrford » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:22 pm

That's a pretty good summary and I totally agree with a lot of what you said.

However, I will say (of course, given my history with the machine and specifically the design of the machine, I'm as bias as they get!) you will be pleasantly surprised with the speed of Shapeoko, even with the mass of the gantry and X carriage.

When I was testing the design, 'way back' in October/November of 2011, I could easily run 400ipm on the X/Y axis without a spindle attached to the z-axis (just a sharpie). For reference, the Cupcake runs at a maximum of 200ipm in the X/Y.

Can't wait to see your completed Shapeoko3D!

-Edward
Shapeoko 1 #0 - a couple of upgrades.
Shapeoko 2 #0 - a couple of upgrades.
Shapeoko 3 #2 - Stock

PLHS54
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by PLHS54 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:20 pm

I second what edward says about the speed. There is a video on here somewhere showing a ridiculously fast shapeOko, so I don't think speed is a problem here.

zimmer62
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by zimmer62 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:49 pm

I think I made that video of the really fast shapeoko. I think they can move fast enough for 3d printing

cvoinescu
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by cvoinescu » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:33 pm

I can't wait to see my ShapeOko3D myself! ;)
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

goopyplastic
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by goopyplastic » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:38 pm

What are you going with out of curiosity?

I'm looking at the X3 and the printrboard
For the head, the qu-bd looks interesting and cheap, the gregs accessible and hotend from makerfarm, or splurge and get a makergear stepstruder or makerbot mk7.

MK1 heatbed seems pretty standard, or the azteeg heated bed, and sparkfun .9 degree nema 17's

cvoinescu
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Re: Shapeoko build qualities for 3d printing

Post by cvoinescu » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:18 am

I haven't seen any of the parts yet, but here's what I've ordered:
  • J-Head hot end rev V-B, 0.35 mm, 3 mm filament, from hotends.com
  • Greg's Wade, not sure what version exactly, from eBay (gcolbourn)
  • RepRap heated bed MK2, from eBay, shipped from Norway
  • 1.8 degree, 2 A, NEMA17 steppers from alltronics.com
  • dual drive on Y
  • Pololu driver carrier boards
  • Breadboarded electronics, for now
I'm not sure what I'm going to do for control and firmware, but I have everything I need to try LinuxCNC and GRBL for the standard ShapeOko milling machine, and whatever runs on RAMPS for the 3D printer.

I considered both the makergear stepstruder and the makerbot MK7, but felt I wasn't getting anything for the extra money. I have a temporary licence to splurge from my wife, so I would have bought one of them if I thought it was better. I would have liked a stainless steel, PEEK- and PTFE-free design, but the one I had my eyes on was not for sale yet. I don't have any machining capabilities (yet!), so I have to stick with what I can buy.

I'll keep a build log once I get the parts and start playing with them.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

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