Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Talk about all things CNC
MeanderBolt
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia
Contact:

Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by MeanderBolt » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:24 pm

Hey all,
I am looking at a Wilton drill vice, and a "Toolmakers" vice.

I am in need of a vice so I can hold some of my aluminum pieces vertically to then mill screw holes, grooves... I am leaning more towards the toolmakers vice as it looks like it would be a flatter, more solid compression, but I have never used a vice like this and have no idea how it works, nor how to attach it to my Shapeoko. Has anyone used one of these? Do you like it, is it worthy?

The Wilton seems to have good ratings and it is clear how it mounts. It is also a standard twist to tighten set up.

So... any thoughts between the two would be helpful.
Shapeoko 2 # 3569 - DW660
Current tool chain > Draftsight > CamBam > ChiliPeppr
Build log

WillAdams
Posts: 8628
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:11 pm
Location: Pennsylvania --- south of the Turnpike, East of US-15
Contact:

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by WillAdams » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:45 pm

I have an inexpensive one like to the first which I mounted on my SO1, but never used (might have been more likely to’ve used it if I’d gotten the hole spacing correct, after I switched vice models so as to get a black one).

I actually put it on top of my SO3 to consider mounting it, but couldn’t see losing that much vertical travel in addition to the 1/2" which I’m already out ’cause of the spoil board / T-nut workholding system I have in place.

Did you consider the low profile vise which Carbide3D is making under license? http://shop.carbide3d.com/products/low- ... 1256429575
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets

MeanderBolt
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia
Contact:

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by MeanderBolt » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:34 pm

Hey Will,
Yeah, I have seen it. It's just another $40. I was getting a little edgy with the *80 of the Welton one. I know you have to pay for good tools, but I do not want to pay $120 for a tool that might not get used as much as I think it might right now (like your case). I am sure you bought that with the best of intentions to use it. Plus, It just looks like it would be kind of flimsy the way it screws into tighten. It being that the locking of the back block is vertical and it is tightened by what appears to be 2 socket head screws driving into the base of the vise, would you be cutting into the aluminum of the vise by putting that much pressure on a two little spots every time you lock it down?

I was planning to put it on a aluminum plate for easy mounting and dismounting with TNut inserts (aluminum bed). I guess that that vise would line up on one of the slots on my bed, yeah?

Also, there is no mention about how hight the vise plates are. If the vise is 2 inches wide, it looks like they might about 3/4 in.
Shapeoko 2 # 3569 - DW660
Current tool chain > Draftsight > CamBam > ChiliPeppr
Build log

chamnit
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:16 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM, USA
Contact:

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by chamnit » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:55 pm

I'm fortunate enough to have one of those Carbide low-profile vices. It's a really nicely designed vice for its main purpose, which is for light duty work on a small machine. It has a huge clamping length compared to similar vices. The only bad thing is that it is designed to mount on the Nomad's carriage in fixed bolt and pin locations. There are only two countersunk, low-profile socket head screw through holes to mount to. The vice jaws aren't very big and the clamping force is fairly good for what it is, but not as good as a toolmakers vice (Sherline makes a nice one too). You basically trade clamping force and travel between the two.

Since the SO3 base is MDF, you can't expect to vice a relatively tall or over the sides of the vice too much without compliance problems, especially with metal machining. That said,it'll do great for operations in wood and lightly loaded jobs.

If you need something more burly, I'd get the toolmakers vice. They are infinitely handy and they just use clamp downs or eccentric nut clamps along the edge of them to affix them to the machine. I have two of them and they get used all of the time for other things like using it to hold on to a small metal part when band sawing it. Keeps my hands out of the way.

MeanderBolt
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia
Contact:

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by MeanderBolt » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:25 pm

Hey Chamnit, thanks for the response.
How does the toolmakers vise attach to the table? From the pictures, I see no way it would mount.
The Toolmaker has a diagonal screw. Is this to pull it towards the work piece as it tightens?

Also, I am using an aluminum bed (Misumi), so I think the Carbide would mount okay as it seems like the mounting holes are linear.
The first intent is for Aluminum, yes of course, I will be milling other things as well with it, but that was the major I need to hit. So, it might be the toolmakers due to the intended duty.
Shapeoko 2 # 3569 - DW660
Current tool chain > Draftsight > CamBam > ChiliPeppr
Build log

woodworkerbob
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:31 pm
Location: SVE - Mesa, AZ

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by woodworkerbob » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:57 pm

A couple of vices to buy? I expected smoking and drinking! :D

I'll go no further on what vices one could buy.

Bob
Shapeoko 3 - #13, dust deputy, precision collets, limit switches.
SVEMakerSpaces

chamnit
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:16 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM, USA
Contact:

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by chamnit » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:07 pm

On a toolmakers vice the moving jaw gets tightened down diagonally toward the workpiece and other jaw. This both clamps the workpiece and pulls it down so it stays flush with the bottom or often a set of precision parallels that raises the workpiece above the top so you can fly cut the top or access all four sides for profiling the outside.

The carbide vice doesn't pull down. It just clamps, which is ok for non precision work or light cuts. Since you are wanting to work with metal and have a suitable base, I recommend getting a toolmakers vice.

The vice usually has a lip that you can get a small hold down clamp in on it to hold it down. Search for sherline vise to see how they mount theirs (it smaller and mor expensive). Also search for eccentric machinist clamp or cam clamp to see another way to affix a vice/large low-profile workpiece to a machine.

clockit
Posts: 319
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:05 pm
Location: California, MO

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by clockit » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:36 am

for what it's worth, I have the first vise that I use with my drill press but it can be a pain to tighten as you are constantly having to slide the handle back to turn it. I know, it's small, but it seems that the smallest thing make me the most aggravated... spent my nickel... ;)
Shapeoko 2, Full Kit #7071, Makita RT0701C Router, 1000 x 1000 upgrade, Acme Z Axis w/Nema 17 Belt Drive

veng1
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by veng1 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:53 pm

One can never have too many vices.

For drilling, I like a vice that has grooves to hold round or odd shaped stock.

For angle cutting, I have an angle vice that is much easier to adjust than the headstock on a ram type mill. Which I haven't used since I first bought an SO1.

You certainly want one that is easily able to be clamped to the SO waste board and you might consider if you will ever want to clamp the vice to a rotary table. That can be faster than rotating the CAD files but a rotary table and a vice means that you will need to figure out some way to raise and lower the waste board to get enough Z travel.

Additional Z travel is an easy mod on an SO2 and impossible on an SO3 without major changes. I'm waiting for Edward to release end plates that will allow the rails to be clamped to an extrusion for the SO3 like was done on the SO2. But with the shipping problems he's working his way through, that will be in the future or I'll make my own. Easy enough with an SO3.

TomDChi
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: Looking at a couple vices... Which would you buy?

Post by TomDChi » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:29 am

With only about 3" of Z clearance, and only about 4+" of Z travel, I've started looking at how much various types of vise lift the workpiece up off the surface the vise is mounted to (ie the wasteboard). A small toolmakers vise where the bottom is 1 1/4" thick means that the thickest workpiece possible is only about 1 3/4" thick.

Post Reply