Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

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ivanw
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Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by ivanw » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:09 am

Hi,

I plan to follow the others to add a aluminum bed to my Shapeoko 2 and ordered a couple flat aluminum extrusions from misumi. I received the shipment today but I found there's some significant deflection across the width of both of my extrusions:
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I understand I shouldn't ask for very high precision for these aluminum extrusions, but as you can see in the pictures the total deflection when I stack the two pieces up is more than 3mm. This sounds a little bit too much for me. I just wonder do any of you guys who bought these extrusions see similar problem? I did think about surface grinding or face milling them but I will need to remove load of material which I think will affect the rigidness of the whole thing. Not sure what could I do now.

Thanks,
-Ivan

WillAdams
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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by WillAdams » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:28 pm

Check w/ Misumi and see if this is w/in tolerance. If it's not, they should replace.

If it's w/in tolerance, then get heavier extrusions, built a frame and bolt these to it, you should be able to pull them flat enough to then machine.
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Hans
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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by Hans » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:31 pm

We've seen a number of posts about problems with these extrusions not being flat. I imagine the best you can do is screw them down onto a more flat and solid base then mill the top surface.
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MeanderBolt
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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by MeanderBolt » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:58 pm

I was one of the people who had this problem. There is a spec and yours looks like it is out. (Although I don't work for them and don't have the final say).
Call them. They will have you send in some pictures and then will respond within a couple of days. One thing to make sure of is that if they send out a replacement, that they DO NOT charge your card a second time. They said that this was part of the process and it would be refunded (which it was like 3 weeks later). I later spoke to one of their managers who said that this was totally incorrect and my card should not have been touched.

But, yeah, contact them. Look at their data sheet. It will have a tolerance listed. Make sure that when you write up your report for them, that you clearly state how far out it is. I made the mistake of stating how much each side was out, not the total combined outness (if that is even a real word). If it is out on both ends, give examples of both ends.

My second set (the replacement) has a little bow to it, but when I tied them to the bottom extrusion, it stayed fairly flat. I will say though, it is NOT perfectly flat and there are things I need to be very mindful of if I am doing things like engraving. But for the most part they have been a very welcome addition to the machine.

You will need to take some time and re-square everything. It took me several passes of tweaks before I got it pretty will lined up. But as I am learning... there is no such thing as perfect. (although TwoForman's machine is about as there as I have seen)
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ivanw
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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by ivanw » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:16 am

Thanks guy for the input. Yea my wife did suggest me to screw them down to the two 20x20 extrusions of the shapeoko base to pull them flat, maybe I can even add more fatter extrusions in the middle. That should work but if by any chance I need to disassemble them I am not sure I can achieve the exact same degree of stretching according the whole surface, and I will need to face mill it again.

I just tried to put them on a long flat MDF I have (and I verified it's extremely flat by a square and a torch), some measurements at the corner show they are really out of spec:
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I didn't make super accurate measurements and the image quality is crappy but you get the idea. If I don't first bolt it to something else there'll be no way I can face mill them flat without ruining the t-slots.
MeanderBolt wrote:I was one of the people who had this problem. There is a spec and yours looks like it is out. (Although I don't work for them and don't have the final say).
Call them. They will have you send in some pictures and then will respond within a couple of days. One thing to make sure of is that if they send out a replacement, that they DO NOT charge your card a second time. They said that this was part of the process and it would be refunded (which it was like 3 weeks later). I later spoke to one of their managers who said that this was totally incorrect and my card should not have been touched.
Thanks MeanderBolt. Glade that I am not the only one. I will definitely talk to Misumi for replacement. I have been staring at this few pounds of aluminum and thinking how could I make them useful...
But, yeah, contact them. Look at their data sheet. It will have a tolerance listed. Make sure that when you write up your report for them, that you clearly state how far out it is. I made the mistake of stating how much each side was out, not the total combined outness (if that is even a real word). If it is out on both ends, give examples of both ends.
Hmm I don't quite get what's the meaning of "total combined outness", could you educate me a little bit?

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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by WillAdams » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:04 am

If you bolt It to the 20x20 you’ll just bend those — they’re not thick / stiff enough to hold when pulling these into true.
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ivanw
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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by ivanw » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:13 pm

WillAdams wrote:If you bolt It to the 20x20 you’ll just bend those — they’re not thick / stiff enough to hold when pulling these into true.
Yes I agree that's why I said I would probably put more fatter extrusions in the middle between the two 20x20 if I go for that route. In fact because of the profile structure of HFSQN4-15250 I can easily pull one into true by putting it on a flat hard surface and using my thumbs to apply just a few pounds at the both ends. The weakest points are those 45 degree angled links between t slots of the top and the bottom. In contrast these extrusions are way much stronger longitudinally.

I sent an inquiry to Misumi last night and they haven't replied me as promptly as they did the last couple times. I hope it's a good sign possibly because they admit there's a problem and are thinking about resolution?

If they agree to replace the items for me I am going to get some cheap fly cutter and tool bits right away so that once I receive the replacement I can briefly face mill them real quick with a Tormach.

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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by DanMc » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:56 pm

I think it would be preferable to face mill in place on the shapeoko if at all possible. It's likely that they would move/shift in transferring and installing, thereby loosing the benefits of the milling.

ivanw
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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by ivanw » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:17 am

DanMc wrote:I think it would be preferable to face mill in place on the shapeoko if at all possible. It's likely that they would move/shift in transferring and installing, thereby loosing the benefits of the milling.
If I do it on my shapeoko I will still need to move the extrusions around to face mill the whole top/bottom because the spindle travel won't cover the whole thing. I need to face mill more than the spindle travel because I need extra space for work holding and supporting. Also I am not sure I can use fly cutter due to the lack of horse power. Big end mills could cause a fortune and the face surface finish isn't comparable to that of a fly cutter. And I really don't feel comfortable using a stock shapeoko 2 to remove this amount of metal.

With a Tormach If I face mill them really carefully (most of the time would be probably spent on work holding and locating), make sure the top and bottom are parallel and also the two extrusions are of the same thickness, they will become more like the two stock MDF wasteboards and I think that will be fine.

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Re: Misumi flat aluminum extrusions HFSQN4-15250-500

Post by MeanderBolt » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:57 pm

ivanw wrote:Hmm I don't quite get what's the meaning of "total combined outness", could you educate me a little bit?
Hmmm. Right then... Completely and totally technical words there. Those kinds of words should only be used by fully trained professionals. Myes that's the ticket. 8-)

That's what happens when you try to post at work on a totally crazy day and you have little left for a brain. :lol:

So... what I meant was that I had the piece rocking in the center. When I wrote them, I told them how much each side was out if sat flat. This was bad as they wanted the total amount the piece was out. So... if the left side and the right side were added together... you get total combined outness.
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