Makerbot and Thingiverse

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SnapFracturePop
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 5:13 pm
Location: Davenport, IA

Makerbot and Thingiverse

Post by SnapFracturePop » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:29 pm

As an active open-hardware community, I'm interested on people's opinions of the Makerbot Replicator 2 being released as closed-source. It seems there has been a bit of retaliation in the open hardware world, including a post advising people to re-read their Thingiverse (owned by Makerbot) terms of use:

From http://www.thingiverse.com/legal:
You hereby grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to [Thingiverse] and its affiliates and partners, an irrevocable, nonexclusive, royalty-free and fully paid, worldwide license to reproduce, distribute, publicly display and perform, prepare derivative works of, incorporate into other works, and otherwise use your User Content, and to grant sublicenses of the foregoing, solely for the purposes of including your User Content in the Site and Services. You agree to irrevocably waive (and cause to be waived) any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to your User Content.
(reminds me why I feel a twinge of dread every time I accept any site's terms of service)

Given that the Replicator has its roots in the open source RepRap, what do you think of "closed-sourcing" the Replicator 2?
Shapeoko #384: dual-Y, outside-belt, ACME-Z,1000mm Y, drag chain cable management, insert-nut style base board, 800mw IR laser cutter, & 3d-printing with Qu-Bd & Printrboard.

gazorp
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Makerbot and Thingiverse

Post by gazorp » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:24 am

How else could a site like thingiverse work without this license? It has not changed in many many months you know (Feb.)... http://blog.thingiverse.com/2012/09/20/ ... ms-of-use/

Also see this: http://www.eevblog.com/2012/09/20/eevbl ... ouncement/

IMHO - Much ado about nothing.

SnapFracturePop
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 5:13 pm
Location: Davenport, IA

Re: Makerbot and Thingiverse

Post by SnapFracturePop » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:50 pm

Hmm, it seems like a bit more than required to make your files available, but that was just a side note. The main thought was about the Replicator going closed-source.
Shapeoko #384: dual-Y, outside-belt, ACME-Z,1000mm Y, drag chain cable management, insert-nut style base board, 800mw IR laser cutter, & 3d-printing with Qu-Bd & Printrboard.

dointhangs
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: Makerbot and Thingiverse

Post by dointhangs » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:42 pm

holy crud did you guys see this "formlabs" thing. They show what is really going with the method at about 2:20 on the video. Makerbot just came out with the new replicator which you guys are talking about here but if you are in the market for a 3d printer how could you choose that over this?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/for ... ref=6342p1
Shapeoko #298, dual drive upgrade, acme z axis, open bed endplates and a slightly larger ("expanded desktop") work area!

jsbannis
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:09 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Makerbot and Thingiverse

Post by jsbannis » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:25 pm

dointhangs wrote:if you are in the market for a 3d printer how could you choose that over this?
Some reasons not to go with (Form1) SL over FDM:
  • The build platform is smaller than FDM machines
  • The printer itself is more expensive than (similarly sized) FDM printers
  • The resin is quite expensive (they quote $149 per liter for non-kickstarter-supporters)
  • They don't give exact makeup of the resin (it's "similar to the acrylate-based materials"). What solvents can it withstand? What are it's properties at different temperatures? Stress properties? FDM you know what you are printing with. (Formlabs does say they'll release an MSDS when they start selling)
  • You don't get to build the printer ;)
Different machines for different applications. The Formlabs machine is extremely accurate for a desktop "not professional" machine, but comes with a price tag and limitations to match. That said, FDM can probably only go so far where accuracy is concerned. SL is the future for high accuracy desktop printers, and anything that will push down the cost is great for the community.
shapeoko #0057

dointhangs
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: Makerbot and Thingiverse

Post by dointhangs » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:19 am

that last bullet point of yours is yes important as its true I do want to build a 3d printer someday and not just buy a pre-made one! I saw the ord bot at a makers faire last spring and near as I can tell it would be a pretty nice 3d printer for under a grand? Dude you seem really knowledgable - I actually have checked the ordbot site out quite a bit - but I still dont understand is there anything that the new replicator can do that an ordbot cant do? I actually do have a series of shapes for a certain application I would like to print but not enough stuff to justify the cost, I can just submit a ponoko order someday... That guy e. ford supposedly was gonna build an ordbot after batch 1 of shapeoko shipped or something, he mentioned that in a blog post months ago I think and I wonder if he got to it...
Shapeoko #298, dual drive upgrade, acme z axis, open bed endplates and a slightly larger ("expanded desktop") work area!

jluther
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:15 pm

Re: Makerbot and Thingiverse

Post by jluther » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:39 pm

The other issue with the form1 is the same reason you don't see custom fixtures outside of surgical procedures built on SL laser machines. The materials are fairly limited to acrylics and epoxies based on what polymers can be photopolymerized using a list of a couple dozen popular photoinitiators (incredibly expensive chemicals, most are also incredibly toxic). Most (like 90%) epoxies in the world come from hunstman, so most companies liks DSM Somos, 3D Systems... buy from them and then add photoinitiators and cross linkers, ceramics... etc to gain different properties, not a complicated process as anyone could do it with a microscale and a paint mixing attachment on a drill but still... This makes them expensive as 10 kg can be well over $1000, but I remember seeing some multifunction resins in the vicinity of $400 for 10 kg; making them about the same cost as ABS right now.

However, the epoxy base makes them a pain in the butt to clean. Since the part is submerged in liquid epoxy that must be removed (and lost) using isopropyl alcohol primarily and typically requires a post cure apparatus as each layer can only be about 80% solid so that the next layer adheres. After this is all done, it's still a limited temperature, strength, and light exposure product (they'll get brittle from fluorescent overhead lights over time)

Anyway, ABS, PC, other thermoplastics have more desirable strength properties, material efficiency, post-processing... whereas the SL laser process has better feature and finish properties, but will require additional equipment and waste collection/disposal services. (you pour dissolved epoxy with photoinitiators down the drain in my neighborhood I will be very upset) :)

jluther
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:15 pm

Re: Makerbot and Thingiverse

Post by jluther » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:43 pm

Also, I bet you could rig a blue LED laser to an old SLA 250 body with some stepper control software and have a 10x10x10" machine capable of 0.003" diameter by 0.0002" tall features for under $2500. Mix a photoinitiator in the resin at home that initiates at that lasers wavelength and you're done...

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