Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Talk about all things CNC
stioc
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:54 pm

Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by stioc » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:22 pm

Just curious - and also if going from belt to leadscrew design is part of it? :twisted:

stioc
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:54 pm

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by stioc » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:52 pm

Crickets! :mrgreen: I was wondering which direction I should go for my next purchase given so many choices these days.

bharbour
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Mobile, AL
Contact:

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by bharbour » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:42 pm

It would have to be a major rework to make me curious...like leadscrews and real linear bearings.
stioc wrote:Just curious - and also if going from belt to leadscrew design is part of it? :twisted:
No longer have a Shapeoko, but use a machine of my own design...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFY4gC9TqD0
http://deltaguitarworks.tumblr.com

CrazyBillybob
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:09 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by CrazyBillybob » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:51 pm

Your not going to get the high travel speeds with lead screws without using much larger screws. When they are spun quickly they start to bend (called screw whip). To keep things budget friendly I'm not sure you could do it (I don't have those skills for sure!). A rack n Pinion system like CNC Router parts maybe the better option.

CBB

stioc
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:54 pm

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by stioc » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Good points. Leadscrews however have been used in metal mills for decades that drive several hundred pounds of tables (and loads on the tables). One just needs to match up the specs. Ballscrews are used on higher tolerance machines. I personally don't like the idea of using the belt system that stretches over time. I guess I want something solid/rigid that you can up the feeds/speeds on. Perhaps my answer is to just convert my 800lbs milling machine to CNC.

CrazyBillybob
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:09 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by CrazyBillybob » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:58 pm

Your 800 Lb mill isn't going to try and cut at 1300 SF per min either. The larger machines can do it because they move at a lower speed, and have a spindle that turns slower. It's a balancing act you want to keep that chip load per tooth, So if the spindle runs at 10K+RPM you need to move it into the material 10 X faster than if it maxed out at 1K RPM. In a 800Lb mill You're talking 200 - 300 RPM for steel, 600 - 900 for Aluminum depending on cutter size. Mine maxs out at 1200RPM and That's not used much. Bigger means stiffer mounts too, and larger bearing surfaces (less lead screw unsupported between ends) Much bigger lead screws (1inch - 2 inch are not uncommon). All of that means more $$$. This is also why the Shapeoko is a CNC Router not a mill. They have similar parts but different jobs and capabilities. In some places there is crossover they can do the same jobs but each has it's own distinct advantages and disadvantages. Like a hand Drill vs drill press they use the same bits and can both drill a hole. But I don't want to try and drag a drill press up the side of a building to screw down sheetmetal. Would it work, maybe if it was small enough or I'm big enough, but the hand drill is a better choice. Just like a Hand drill can drill lots of precises holes in things, but the drill press will do that job quicker and better.
If you're looking for a CNC Mill the cost effectiveness converting your old manual mill to CNC could be a cheaper option than buying a new CNC Mill. If you can do the work yourself. Maybe not if you have to pay someone else for a conversion kit.

Don't get me wrong I hope there's a Shapeoko 4 in the works, I hope it's got some new upgrades that make it better. I'm just tossing my $0.02 out on things.

CBB

northbear
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:21 pm

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by northbear » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:23 pm

A good company with continue to improve its product so I imagine there will eventually be a ShapeOkO 4. That being said I hope they also "go back to their roots" and look at producing a low cost CNC as well. They have made the ShapeOkO better with each revision but have also increased the cost as well. As a comparison I am sure Shopbot makes a great product, but I can't justify paying several thousand for a CNC as a occasional hobbyist. What I liked about ShapeOkO was it's low cost ($300 goal initially) and open source design. Cost has gone up and while it is still open source, but now uses proprietary software as standard and is harder to customize your own build your own as the extrusions are not available to buy separately.

Sorry, got a bit off topic there!
My buildlog is here

stioc
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:54 pm

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by stioc » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:12 am

Agreed with both of you guys on the above points. I guess people like me want a machine to be able to handle aluminum effectively while also keeping the cost down. I guess you can't make everyone happy and I understand that, but perhaps, upgrade kit as an option could be available.

Personally I built my own GRBL based small cnc router from ebay parts, the cost was $250 all in- it was meant to be a learning exercise and a 'proof of concept' for me to see if I would want something nicer/significant down the road. In case you're wondering, the answer is heck yeah! CNC is awesome. I'd love a Tormach 770 but they don't go on 95% off sales from what I've noticed :lol: So I'm thinking of either converting my manual mill or buying a large but a rigid cnc router capable of handling aluminum without wearing out parts every few dozen hours of use.

CrazyBillybob
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:09 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by CrazyBillybob » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:43 pm

The best way to get something like the shapeoko to handle aluminum better would be a different spindle. There are some units out there that run slower but they are a bit heavier than the palm routers we now use. The slower speeds also mean a bit more tool pressure which can lead to deflection in the Z axis if it's not tuned well. All things that you can fix. But I don't think that there's much of a market for that (not with the spindles being 50%-75% the cost of the total Shapeoko now). With that said this platform is very mod-able so that's not to say you couldn't beef a few plates up and slap a gear or belt driven spindle on it and make it profitable for your shop. That's one of the great things about this little machine, it's cheap (cost wise) enough that you can put a little money into customizing it to your work and your still out way less that a dedicated industrial machine if it doesn't pan out. Or you can modify it if your product design (or customers) change.

CBB

bharbour
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Mobile, AL
Contact:

Re: Is there a Shapeoko 4 in the works?

Post by bharbour » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:15 pm

I have 1/2" leadscrews in excess of 36" on my current machine with no problems. There is some whip at higher speeds, but not enough to cause any problem. I don't know what rapids you're expecting though. When I built my machine I did look at using belts and pulleys. But it was actually less expensive to use the Acme 1/2-10 5 start leadscrews.
CrazyBillybob wrote:Your not going to get the high travel speeds with lead screws without using much larger screws. When they are spun quickly they start to bend (called screw whip). To keep things budget friendly I'm not sure you could do it (I don't have those skills for sure!). A rack n Pinion system like CNC Router parts maybe the better option.

CBB
No longer have a Shapeoko, but use a machine of my own design...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFY4gC9TqD0
http://deltaguitarworks.tumblr.com

Post Reply