Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

JPeterG
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 6:17 am
Location: CA

Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by JPeterG » Wed May 21, 2014 3:36 pm

Here's the latest update:

I've received payment from everyone who expressed interest in one or more custom 1/8" collets for the Makita RT0701C router. Final tally was 16 collets. Thanks to everyone who participated for getting us to the first price break.

When I contacted the manufacturer to add the latest two collets, he told me he was happy to do it, and that he would invoice me tomorrow and ship on Friday (May 23rd)! Woohoo! So our collets should be on their way soon.

When I get them, I plan to do a couple of quick tests (drill some holes, route a couple of tracks) and compare the runout to the original 1/4" collet, my original set-screw collet adapter, and maybe also against my drill-press. I'll post some pictures and a quick review of the results. If everything looks good, I'll package them up and send them out to everyone. If I see any problems (which I honestly don't expect), I'll sort them out first with the manufacturer rather than ship bad collets.

Once I feel satisfied that I can vouch for the product, I'll also share full details about the manufacturer so that others can order additional collets without my interference in the future. :lol:

Stay tuned,

Peter.
Shapeoko 2 #5059. Assembly in progress...

JPeterG
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 6:17 am
Location: CA

Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by JPeterG » Sat May 24, 2014 6:41 pm

Update for May 24:

The invoice for the collets was paid Thursday afternoon. The company said it would ship the collets Friday (May 23), but I didn't hear back from them before the end of business on Friday (I'm in California, they're back East.) I have an E-Mail in to confirm that the order shipped and if there is a tracking number associated with it.

I'll let you know more when I know more.

Peter.
Shapeoko 2 #5059. Assembly in progress...

JPeterG
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 6:17 am
Location: CA

Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by JPeterG » Tue May 27, 2014 3:29 pm

Update for May 27:

Got the tracking number from the manufacturer. Collets went out Friday by way of priority mail, and are scheduled to arrive later today. I hope to post some pictures tonight, and run a couple of tests on them tomorrow. If everything looks good, I'll gather together some padded envelopes and get them in the mail to you all Thursday or Friday.

Stay tuned, we're nearing the finish line! :D

Peter.
Shapeoko 2 #5059. Assembly in progress...

JPeterG
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 6:17 am
Location: CA

Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by JPeterG » Wed May 28, 2014 6:57 am

May 27, Update 2

Our collets have arrived!

Here's a picture with everyone's collets all together, with the stock Makita 1/4" collet on the right:
IMG_2601.jpg
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I have yet to do any detailed testing on runout, but here are my first impressions of the collets:
  • The collets fit nicely in the collet holder on the RT0701C. No sanding required, but also not rattle-y loose. The manufacturer seems to have reproduced the dimensions well.
  • Inserting 1/8" milling bits from the starter set I purchased from Inventables, I found that the spiral bits slide all the way through the collet. However, the two flat mill bits get stuck roughly 1/8" from the back end of the collet. I double checked with a couple of regular 1/8" drill bits, and they too slide all the way through the collet. So I attribute the two flat bits getting stuck to be an issue with the bits themselves being a little out of spec, and not with the machining of the collets.
  • Hand tightening the collet retainer with a 1/8" flat bit inserted introduced enough grip so that I couldn't twist the bit in the collet by hand. I was initially worried that the extra "meat" of each section of the collet would make it harder to tighten than the stock 1/4" collet, but this does not seem to be the case. Tightening the custom collet for actual milling should be no different than tightening the stock 1/4" collet.
  • The collets seem to be well made. A quick "eyeball" check showed no visible runout, which is much better than the runout I observed when using the stock 1/4" collet with an 1/8" set screw adapter. I also saw no appreciable runout on the flat bits that didn't slide all the way through the collet, so I don't think that will be an issue.
  • For those of you who ordered two collets, you're going to love the sound they make when you shake a pair of them in your hand. They sound much more musical than when one of the collets in your hand is the stock 1/4" collet. :lol:
I honestly believe you will all be pleased with your collets. I think they are a much nicer solution than using 1/8" adapters of any sort with the stock 1/4" collet that the RT0701C ships with. Tomorrow I will drill some holes and route some tracks with a couple of the collets and measure the results with my digital caliper to see if the numbers back up my first impressions. I'll then post the results with a few more pictures for you to review.

My wife has kindly picked up some padded envelopes, and once the measured runout testing is complete, I hope to start packing up and mailing out your collets. While this may be as early as end of day tomorrow (Wednesday, May 28), most likely they will go out by mid-day Thursday (May 29). After I have dropped the packages off at the post office, I'll send you each individual PMs to let you know that your order has shipped.

Regards,

Peter.
Shapeoko 2 #5059. Assembly in progress...

tekadept
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:48 am

Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by tekadept » Wed May 28, 2014 11:42 am

Nice, look a helluva lot nicer then the stock ones too :)

criznach
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: Great Falls, Montana, USA

Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by criznach » Thu May 29, 2014 3:40 am

I've been out of the loop for a while, but those sure do look nice. Are they all spoken for?

JPeterG
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 6:17 am
Location: CA

Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by JPeterG » Thu May 29, 2014 6:36 am

criznach wrote:I've been out of the loop for a while, but those sure do look nice. Are they all spoken for?
Current sets are all spoken for. However, the manufacturer rounded the batch up to 25 pieces, and has nine more available for purchase at the $17.50 price break. I'll be posting all the details about the manufacturer and how to get hold of the remaining ones shortly.

Right now I'm processing my run-out testing for a mini review, and I have to say I'm impressed with the performance of these collets.

Stay tuned for both,

Peter.
Shapeoko 2 #5059. Assembly in progress...

JPeterG
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 6:17 am
Location: CA

Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by JPeterG » Thu May 29, 2014 10:43 am

OK, so I finished testing the custom 1/8" collet, and I'm pretty impressed with its performance relative to the set-screw collet adapter I had. Here's a picture of the piece of wood I tested on:
IMG_2633.jpg
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And here's a piece of PVC sheet that I tested on as well:
IMG_2626.jpg
IMG_2626.jpg (102.67 KiB) Viewed 2733 times
Some summary observations:
  • On the whole, the custom collet had less than half the runout of the 1/4" collet with a set-screw collet adapter. In a number cases the runout was considerably better, approaching 10x less runout.
  • Oddly, with the stock 1/4" collet and adapter, my spiral up-cut bit burned the wood. You can see it in the picture if you look at tracks 2 and 5 from the upper left. After that, I did a bunch of extra tracks on the right edge of the wood to try to reproduce the burning with the custom 1/8" collet, but was unable to.
  • With all the tracks cut with the stock 1/4" collet and adapter it seemed that more force was required to move the bit through the material at the same rate as the 1/8" custom collet. I assume that relates back to the burning mentioned in the previous item, but that result surprised me. Can anyone explain why worse runout would require extra force or cause wood burning? Or was it maybe not a problem with runout, but the set-screw adapter not sinking heat as well as the custom collet?
  • The fact that the flat two-flute bits wouldn't slide all the way into the custom collet did result in higher run-out numbers than for the spiral bit, which slid all the way through. Nevertheless, the runout numbers were still considerably less than with the stock 1/4" collet and the set-screw adapter.

I made a spreadsheet of the measurements, and defined some formulas to determine the runout. So that none of you need to own Excel or Numbers to view the numbers, I have included it as a PDF, which should be viewable by everyone:
ColletTests.pdf
(35.95 KiB) Downloaded 188 times
Let me explain the methodology used to test the collets. I'm sure the experienced machinists among us will find many faults with this methodology, but it was the best I could do in one afternoon, so I apologize in advance for any shortcomings in my data.
  • Since my Shapeoko is still under construction, I hand routed the tracks with the RT0701C base, run along a straight edge.
  • I routed test tracks and some holes in a piece of scrap Poplar and a sheet of PVC plastic just to test on different materials.
  • I cut tracks with a two-flute straight bit and a a single flute spiral up-cut bit. Why those bits? Because that's what I had in my Inventables starter bit set. :D With those bits, I cut one track for each bit with the custom 1/8" collet, and one with the stock 1/4" collet plus a set-screw collet adapter. (As I noted above, the extra tracks on the right side of the wood are where I did additional testing for burning.)
  • I used a digital caliper to measure the bits at the tip, taking three measurements to determine an average.
  • Then, I used the digital caliper to measure the resulting tracks. I took three measurements at various places within the middle third of the track. This seemed to be the most consistent part of the tracks, presumably because I had the router moving at a fairly constant speed with good pressure against the straight edge by that point.
  • Track measurements were then averaged and subtracted from the average bit diameter values to determine an average runout value for each bit.
  • Finally, I also clamped the RT0701C router to my workbench and used my XY table to drill a hole in the wood. I then compared this hole against a hole created with my drill press, which has a pretty low runout. I was pleasantly surprised how well the clamped RT0701C with the custom collet fared against the drill press.
The numeric results of the testing are shown in the spreadsheet PDF, and summarized above.

Because of the testing, I was unable to start mailing collets today. Furthermore, I need to head into the office tomorrow, so I don't think I'll be able to get the collets out in the mail Thursday... It will have to wait until Friday when I can work from home again. I know after seeing the numbers, you're probably all anxious to get your collets, so I apologize for the added delay. I'll let you know as soon as I have sent yours out to you via PM.

If you have any questions about the testing, please let me know.

Peter.
Shapeoko 2 #5059. Assembly in progress...

cvoinescu
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Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by cvoinescu » Thu May 29, 2014 11:26 am

This looks like a massive improvement. Thank you for doing this.

I can't speak for others, but as far as I'm concerned, no worries about the delay. I understand perfectly (from copious first-hand experience, I'm sorry to say).
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

WillAdams
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Re: Custom 1/8" Collet for Makita RT0701C Trim Router

Post by WillAdams » Thu May 29, 2014 11:33 am

JPeterG wrote:Can anyone explain why worse runout would require extra force or cause wood burning? Or was it maybe not a problem with runout, but the set-screw adapter not sinking heat as well as the custom collet?
Extra force would be explained by the runout (the bit is constantly wobbling / bending and you're not getting a straight, even approach to beginning to cut the chip) --- I think the poor cutting would also explain the heat, though the heat sink idea is interesting.

Unfortunately, we don't have much in the wiki on runout yet, and there's only 16 pages of search results here --- the CNC Cookbooks folks have a bit on their site, and presumably in their book, but I've consciously chosen not to get a copy of the latter.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

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