Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

phinsil6
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:28 pm

Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by phinsil6 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:53 pm

Hello, I have a modified Shapeoko 2 and would like to have a 3 axis machine that can 3d print and CNC with relatively simple changes. I know this has been done before with varying results. I am looking for some pointers. Here is my documentation so far.

Purpose:
Convert the existing Shapeoko CNC machine into a 3d Printer capable of printing at a minimum ABS and PLA

CNC Configuration before Conversion:

* Stock Rail and Pulley System (GT2 Belting and 20 tooth pulleys)
* ACME Z Axis
* Nema23 Z Axis
* Nema23 X Axis
* Nema17 Y Axis (Left) -- upgrade to Nema23 in the works
* Nema17 Y Axis (Right) -- upgrade to Nema23 in the works
* G-Shield for Stepper Motor Control -- upgrade to (4) Pololu DRV8825 Stepper Drivers in the works
* Hall Effect Limit Switches to be installed, system ready for them
* DeWalt DWP611 1.25HP Spindle
* Bosch Colt Inventables Mount
* SuperPID Spindle Speed Controller
* Mach3 Software Control
* AutoDesk Fusion 360 CAD/CAM
* 24VDC 17A PSU (400W)
* 12VDC 30A PSU (360W)
* 5VDC 5A PSU (25W)
* available Pololu DRV8825 Stepper Driver for Extruder Stepper control

Desired Conversion Process (for day to day conversion CNC <--> 3D Printer:

1. Remove spindle from mount
2. remove spindle mount from spindle plate
3. attach extruder and hot end to spindle plate
4. connect extruder/hot-end cables to already-in-place cabling

* extruder stepper cable (4/C #18 SH)
* hot-end heater cartridge cable (2/C #12 SH)
* hot-end heater thermistor (2/C #26ish
* hot-end fan (2/C)

5. Lay Down Heated Bed/Glass
6. Connect Heated Bed to Electronics Enclosure
7. Load 3D Printer Mach 3 Profile
8. Load prepared STL into Mach3 Addon, generate G-code
9. Run 3D Printer

My Problem is that I have too many unknowns:

1. 1.75mm or 3mm?
2. Bowden or Direct extrusion?
3. What kind of hot-end?
4. What kind of extruder?
5. how to mount chosen extruder to existing spindle plate?
6. How to control hot end heater?
7. how to control hot bed?

Now, with all that said, this is where I'm leaning:
-E3D V6 Universal 1.75mm hot-end
-Direct Extruder (no idea what kind or how to mount or how to source)
-Home Built Arduino with PID Library with I/O for (2) thermistors and (2) 30A outputs
-It seems there is an addon in Mach 3 for adding STLs and controlling the post-processed gcode

I have attached a pdf of how I envision the control scheme looking like.

Have I missed any major components?
Attachments
CNC-3d Printer - System Architecture.pdf
(169.63 KiB) Downloaded 281 times

cvoinescu
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Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by cvoinescu » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:12 am

I don't know the first thing about Mach3 as a 3D printer controller, but I'd like to say that the dedicated 3D printer firmwares, especially Marlin, have made huge progress in the last few years. They have advanced features, such as dynamic temperature adjustment, compensation for extruder lag, volumetric extrusion control and so on. (Some of these adjustments can be made in the slicer, but they are more conveniently done in the machine controller; some can only be done in the controller.)

I warmly recommend Marlin as the controller firmware. It runs on, among other things, an Arduino Mega 2560 with a RAMPS shield. The RAMPS already has everything you need for temperature control (both extruder and bed), and takes your Pololu-compatible driver modules, so the overall cost to you is about the same, for what I think is a superior solution. Last but not least, Marlin and the host software (e.g. Pronterface) are very popular and very well supported open-source products, so, if something goes wrong, you'll find lots and lots of people who can help you. I am willing to bet that the Marlin user base is at least 100 times that of the Mach3 as 3D printer controller.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

WillAdams
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Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by WillAdams » Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:58 am

Not seeing the advantage of a Bowden setup w/ a single extruder on a heavy gantry such as the SO. I'm also wondering if small filament/nozzle sizes make sense.

I've had good luck w/my J-Head thus far and used a pair of brackets to fasten it to the Universal Spindle Mount, but not seeing why a particular nozzle design would be especially suited to this case.

I've drawn up something a bit different for the SO3 but still trying to puzzle out dimensions.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets

phinsil6
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Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by phinsil6 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:03 pm

I warmly recommend Marlin as the controller firmware. It runs on, among other things, an Arduino Mega 2560
Thanks for the the suggestion. After looking into it I will implement the Marlin controller on an Arduino Mega 2560 I have lying around.
Last but not least, Marlin and the host software (e.g. Pronterface) are very popular and very well supported open-source products, so, if something goes wrong, you'll find lots and lots of people who can help you. I am willing to bet that the Marlin user base is at least 100 times that of the Mach3 as 3D printer controller.
You are spot on here. Just some quick google searches gave VERY obscure sources for Mach3 as a 3d printer controller. Hopefully this will become more popular as I think it is a superior overall controller to Arduino based. That being said, bandwagon is so much easier with much more help.
The RAMPS already has everything you need for temperature control (both extruder and bed), and takes your Pololu-compatible driver modules
As for the RAMPS, I'm not real keen on the fact that it is 12v only except with some very key alterations to the hardware. Since I already have a design for my driver carriers and the MOSFET control shown in the RAMPS schematic is so simple I will probably break the RAMPS into some self designed/milled boards myself. I definitely like the idea of using the Marlin temp controller functions though as I was nervous about this.
Not seeing the advantage of a Bowden setup w/ a single extruder on a heavy gantry such as the SO. I'm also wondering if small filament/nozzle sizes make sense.
Not really sure what you are saying here. Are you implying that you have this setup now and it isn't working for you?

On a different note, I've just ordered the E3D V6 w/ 24v cartridge. Now I'm looking for an extruder to go with it but I'm having difficulties on the extruder part. I simply don't know best places to get them or how they work quite frankly.

WillAdams
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Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by WillAdams » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:17 pm

Unfortunately, the guy I got mine from quit selling stuff. Here's one place based on a quick search: <redacted> --- but I've never done business w/ them and have no idea if they're reliable or no, how the quality of their parts is.

The relevant part on the wiki is: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/ ... g#Cold_End Not sure how to state it more succinctly or better.

Maybe this video helps?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52chDT-IAxw

Re: Bowden --- what I was trying to say is that the Bowden addresses a problem which a Shapeoko doesn't have --- that of trying to lessen the mass of the gantry / print head so as to allow for faster movement. An SO1/2/3/ X-gantry is sufficiently massy that moving a single stepper motor and a bit of hardware doesn't change things much at all.

As regards my setup --- I tried to document it here so that anyone who wished could re-create/implement or improve on it: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/RepStrapOko --- what needs to be added?
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets

cvoinescu
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Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by cvoinescu » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:03 pm

There are many RAMPS derivatives, some of which have 24 V support. I can't recommend one, because I just used some perf board and wired it myself...
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

Caesar S
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by Caesar S » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

WillAdams wrote:Unfortunately, the guy I got mine from quit selling stuff. Here's one place based on a quick search: http://www.makergeeks.com/waexrefukitr.html --- but I've never done business w/ them and have no idea if they're reliable or no, how the quality of their parts is.
:x I vehemently discourage business with makergeeks! I've done so and received poor quality parts (Reprap 3D printer which turns out comes from China when they say they manufacture it), they don't take returns for refunds either, they provide store credit. Once you spend with them, your money is theirs, you won't get it back.

DIYTech is another bad shop.

phinsil6
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by phinsil6 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:22 pm

I just used some perf board and wired it myself...
Yeah i was thinking along the same lines, pretty simple board really...
I vehemently discourage business with makergeeks! I've done so and received poor quality parts (Reprap 3D printer which turns out comes from China when they say they manufacture it), they don't take returns for refunds either, they provide store credit. Once you spend with them, your money is theirs, you won't get it back.

DIYTech is another bad shop.
Thanks for the heads up! That being said, do you have a good place where I could get an extruder that will work with E3D v6 (Wades reloaded I understand)?
what I was trying to say is that the Bowden addresses a problem which a Shapeoko doesn't have --- that of trying to lessen the mass of the gantry / print head so as to allow for faster movement. An SO1/2/3/ X-gantry is sufficiently massy that moving a single stepper motor and a bit of hardware doesn't change things much at all.
yeah no kidding, shapeoko gantry ain't no dainty thing

Caesar S
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by Caesar S » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:25 pm

Wades extruder is the most common, there are many mount adapters for e3D.

WillAdams
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Re: Shapeoko <--> 3D Printer

Post by WillAdams » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:29 pm

Heres another vendor which I found:

Ultibots --- seem to need three parts:
- http://www.ultibots.com/gregs-wade-reloaded-extruder/
- https://store-9oviwe.mybigcommerce.com/ ... dware-kit/
- https://store-9oviwe.mybigcommerce.com/ ... per-motor/

again, no affiliation or experience.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets

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