Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

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conick
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Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by conick » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:28 pm

Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet...

A lot of people have been asking about kits for upgrading Shapeoko 1 to 2. I imagine that most people in this forum would be more interested in an upgrade kit than in the $299 mechanical kit or the full kits that are currently available for preorder. (I wonder how many of us there are?)

Seems to me that the version 2 updates could be separated into a few somewhat orthogonal groups of parts. Perhaps each group could be offered as a separate kit. For example:

- Parts to upgrade just the z axis

- Parts to upgrade just from single-extrusion x axis to dual

- Parts to upgrade from old endplates to new open endplates

I think all of the parts needed for these last two groups might already be available separately, except perhaps for some metal spacers and long screws, and of course the rail in 500mm length. (And perhaps a few other things I'm not aware of because I haven't had a close look at v.2.)

The part that most interests me is the kit just for upgrading the z axis. I think I have all of the parts needed for the rest, and I know some other people do too, and probably some people would like to upgrade the z axis and leave the rest alone for now, for budget reasons or whatever.

My reason for asking about this is not just about the cost; it's also about the time. It sometimes takes Inventables a long time to decide about how to do things, and also to make things available. (At least that's how we on the outside perceive it.)

If we break the upgrades up into groups, with the right granularity, it might help accelerate Inventable's decision process and get some of the upgrades into our hands faster. It might also help if Inventables has some idea how many people want each group of parts. Maybe we should do a survey?

WillAdams
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by WillAdams » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:05 pm

It's a nice idea --- the problem is Inventables is at an uncomfortable middle point in size --- too large for small-scale on-demand inventory, too small to arrange just-in-time parts orders from suppliers.

I'd like to see an electronics parts kit as well.

Just glad though to have them in business to order from.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/ Carbide Compact Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Carbide 3D precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

conick
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by conick » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:43 am

This is exactly why I brought this up now.

They are already selling some of the larger & heavier items that appear in Shapeoko 2 but not Shapeoko 1: the new motor mounts plates and the new endplates.

I hope they sell the 500mm rails, but can live with it if they never do that.

A lot of the smaller hardware is the same for both versions, presumably, and a lot of that they already sell individually, or can be had elsewhere because it's commodity hardware.

What's left, that appears in 2 but not 1? Largely z axis parts, I think. Maybe some long metal spacers and bolts from the dual-extruder version of the x axis assembly.

The point is: those unique parts, if you exclude the 500mm rails and the new wasteboard, are fairly small and light compared to what people have been asking for (the entire upgrade in one kit), and might be logistically easier for Inventables to deal with. (Perhaps easier than dealing with those parts individually as well.)

Also: Inventables is rolling out Shapeoko 2 kits, aimed at new buyers. They don't really know how many kits they will sell, or how fast. Upgrade kits, on the other hand, are only for one audience, a known one: existing Shapeoko owners, the people who hang out here. We could run a survey and tell them how many kits or individual parts we want. That might make their decisions a lot easier.

cvoinescu
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by cvoinescu » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:12 am

conick wrote:Also: Inventables is rolling out Shapeoko 2 kits, aimed at new buyers. They don't really know how many kits they will sell, or how fast.
They kinda do, though. I think Shapeoko 2 will continue to sell at the same pace as the original, which sold, in my estimate, 2,500 units, give or take 300, since its introduction. It started slower, then accelerated, so I'm pretty sure they can count on the same pace they saw in recent month in Shapeoko sales, at a minimum.
conick wrote:Upgrade kits, on the other hand, are only for one audience, a known one: existing Shapeoko owners, the people who hang out here.
It may be known, but it's relatively small, and we're talking about the much lower value item that would be the Z upgrade. The Shapeoko 2 kits Inventables sell in a month are probably worth more than all Z axis upgrades for everyone who wants one, ever (which I assume to be a small fraction of the current owners -- 20% tops). The plates are easy to sell (pack and send them as they are -- no kits to put together); a Z upgrade kit would require someone to pack it, and that's very different, logistically. Granted, they could sell the Z carriage plate and the Z motor plates, and leave us to our own devices for the fasteners. That would be just about the only way an upgrade would make sense.
conick wrote:We could run a survey and tell them how many kits or individual parts we want. That might make their decisions a lot easier.
Or not: surveys are notoriously inaccurate, and self-selected online surveys much, much more so.
WillAdams wrote:It's a nice idea --- the problem is Inventables is at an uncomfortable middle point in size --- too large for small-scale on-demand inventory, too small to arrange just-in-time parts orders from suppliers.
Trust me, the smaller size is even more uncomfortable. :)
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

Improbable Construct
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by Improbable Construct » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:59 am

If you look around on the forum it seems like almost everybody has one of my ACME upgrades.
In reality, I have only sold just over 150 of them in the last year.
That means that only 6-8 % of shapeoko users have upgraded to the ACME screw.
That is probably not enough volume to be worthwhile for a company.
I would guess that v1-> v2 upgrade kits would probably fall into the same category.
Shapeoko #Classified some of the bolts may be original parts.
Shapeoko 1 # ???? Stainless plates, still in the box.
Shapeoko 2 # 3926 not stock
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jkanzaki
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by jkanzaki » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:51 am

Improbable Construct wrote:If you look around on the forum it seems like almost everybody has one of my ACME upgrades.
In reality, I have only sold just over 150 of them in the last year.
That means that only 6-8 % of shapeoko users have upgraded to the ACME screw.
That is probably not enough volume to be worthwhile for a company.
I would guess that v1-> v2 upgrade kits would probably fall into the same category.

the ACME you design is a great upgrade
Shapeoko 1 - dissassemble
Shapeoko 2 - 1 x 1m expansion TinyG, superPid, Dw660, Aluminum extrusion bed, Nema 23, acme, Z axis upgrade, Dual Y
Shapeoko 3 - 0051 Stock Dw611, SuperPid, limit switch, 9mm belt

etxbkst
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by etxbkst » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:05 pm

Is the Z-Axis configuration not possible with the existing carriage plate?

cvoinescu
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by cvoinescu » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:57 pm

It is, but the new plate has a longer wheelbase (vertically), and it's much stiffer than the aluminum carriage plate (it's a bit thicker, and it's steel). I'm of the opinion that if the X carriage is solid -- which it would be with the new, insanely thick motor plates -- the gains from flipping the Z around are relatively small. I have to experiment, which I haven't had time for yet.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

jsbannis
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by jsbannis » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:17 pm

Inventables already sells just about everything you need except for Z axis changes. I'd really like to see a page similar to the "Dual Y Motor Upgrade" page that just lists what you need and has links to the product page for each. Mostly this is out of laziness though since I could just look it all up myself :)
shapeoko #0057

BotDoc
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Re: Kits for upgrading to Shapeoko 2

Post by BotDoc » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:05 pm

I have, or will by this weekend, built a V2 with extended Y and IC's Acme Z axis from a V1. Except for the Z axis, everything else was from Inventables. They even sell the flanged z bearing. What I don't see on their site is the plates for capturing the flanged bearing or the Z carriage.

You can get the metal spacers (for #10 and #12/M5 screws or threaded rods) on the site and they also sell the new belt clips.

Of course, buying by the piece is not cheap!
ShapeOko #1728. 1000mm dual drive y, 500 mm double x, Acme Z, V2 motor plates, DW 660.

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