Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

cvoinescu
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by cvoinescu » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:45 pm

If extrusions become available on their own, you're free to build your own frame, rather than go for Edward's design. If your table is rock-solid, for instance, you don't even need any machine component to span the length or width of the machine. You just need to attach the ends of the Y rail securely to the table. That is really a matter of a few parts (rail, belt, and the means to support the rail).
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chamnit
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by chamnit » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:06 pm

I first want to state that when you scale something up, the structural problem gets a lot more difficult. This is simple physics. You have to make sure that the base,or foundation, is stiff enough to support the machine and not effect the accuracy of the machine. With a 16"x16" SO3, the 3/4" MDF provides enough rigidity. But, when you increase the size of the machine up to 4'-5', you have to have a base at least 3"-4" in depth to provide enough rigidity. I think this is what most people don't realize.

If you are wanting to make a good product that is rigid and machines very well, you have do things like this. This is somewhat unlike Printrbot's Crawlbot,where they leave the user to deal with the table. I can only imagine how many pissed off users there will be with that machine, because of the untold number of problems users will run across by not building a solid enough base for it.

As for the worry about stepper motors, the X-axis and Z-axis will not be effected. At all. These both will move the same amount of mass, if the router carriage design remains the same. The only thing that will be effected are the Y-axis motors on the ends of the gantry. These will have to move about twice as much mass than before, but I'm not too worried about this. You have two NEMA 23 motors. At a minimum, you may have to lower the acceleration of the y-axis, but I doubt it'll be enough to notice. The max speed shouldn't change much, if at all, since max speed is limited by the gantry friction, which should be the same.

James RS
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by James RS » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:40 pm

Where are you finding pricing?



Daman691003 wrote:I thought this machine was supposed to be upgraded with only a small amount of parts. I don't think the steppers will even move that thing. I kinda wish I just got an x carve. Really not happy with this "easy upgrade". For the price I could of went with a better quality machine and better mechanics. 3000 can get a lot of CNc. That's 1000 more than so3 and upgrades maybe.

WillAdams
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by WillAdams » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:57 pm

There was a post which had some rough unofficial estimates from an email: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic ... =80#p54972

May have been that was supposed to be private.
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chamnit
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by chamnit » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:26 pm

Interesting Will. I'm not sure if you can get a better machine at this size for that price. ShotBots are horribly expensive, but is a polished turn-key machine. I think a ShopBot with equal size is about $11k+. At that price, you get everything including a sturdy table, but it's out of the price range of most, if not all, hobbyists. A Printrbot Crawlbot is $4000, and you don't even get a y-gantry or base/table.

If you try pricing a 4'x4' CNC build yourself, I think you'll be surprised how quickly costs go up. It's over a square (power of 2) rate. Aluminum and plywood are relatively cheap if you need a small amount for a small machine, but when you need beams and structure large and strong enough for the longer spans, that material cost adds up very fast. In general, I don't mind having to tinker with something to get what I need at a lower price, but at some point, it's not worth the time and effort to completely DIY something. It's the mistakes that cost both time and money.

Daman691003
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by Daman691003 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:53 pm

Listen I love my machine it's just too small and we were told how easy it would be to make larger.

WillAdams
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by WillAdams » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:13 pm

One thing which I've been considering is pulling the 1M Makerslide off my SO1, drilling new holes in the SO3 endplates and Y-axis motor plates, fashioning a new bed and a bunch of side supports and doing a hybrid machine for a while.

Waiting for the upgrade seems a much simpler, and far better engineered option.
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jdon
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by jdon » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:02 pm

Daman691003 wrote:Listen I love my machine it's just too small and we were told how easy it would be to make larger.
+1. I've planning from the beginning to make the machine larger once upgrades were available, and was pretty disappointed to eventually hear that the upgrade might cost as much as the whole smaller machine in the first place. I also love my machine, but had expected to be able to upgrade it without doubling the price. I've been waiting to find out more about what the upgrade package actually includes since maybe I'll find it compelling. I could certainly take the time I'd spend building a table and put it towards using the table instead. What I was expecting, though, was a pair of longer Y-axis extrusions at a relatively low price.
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chamnit
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by chamnit » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:46 pm

I can't see how an upgrade to the ShapeOko3 that goes from 256 square inch (16"x16") to 2304 square inch (48"x48") work area won't have a reasonable cost to it. That's almost a 10x increase in machine capability.

WillAdams
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Re: Shapeoko 3 - 4' x 4' - Prototype #1

Post by WillAdams » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:02 am

Yep. It’s a lot of functionality / area / length of extrusions, which is why I really hope that it can also be split into two kits, one expanding only along the Y-axis, the other only along the X-axis.

I further hope that there will eventually be an even longer Y-axis upgrade which will get us to a longer than 8' cutting area.
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

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