Custom Plates

discussion of design changes / improvements / suggestions
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jrsteensen
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:29 pm

Custom Plates

Post by jrsteensen » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:29 pm

Had some custom endplates and X & Y plates made up from .25 stainless. Should take ANY flex out, though I did forget to factor in the weight....so I'll have to see how well they work with the delrin linear wheels.

Image

This should give me extreme rigidity when I extend out the Shapeoko.

cvoinescu
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Re: Custom Plates

Post by cvoinescu » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:48 pm

I hate to burst your bubble, but the plates contribute very little to the flex. Most of it is due to the V-wheels (bearings, mostly, and the plastic part). Anyway, 0.25" is waaay overkill. In my opinion, this is the decreasing order of effectiveness of the modifications:
  • Dual Y drive
  • Dual X rail
    • X carriage reinforced with, say, extrusion between the two plates, instead of relying only on the X wheel bolts
    • the two X rails 20-30mm apart and rigidly coupled together, e.g. sandwiching between them some standard extrusion and bolted together along the length
  • Moving the Z wheels further apart, i.e. replacing the standard plate with a taller one
  • (for a long machine) Mid-span supports for the Y rails, and/or doubling it with standard extrusion bolted along the length
  • Moving the Z leadscrew to the side to reduce the length (and hence flex) of the Z wheel bolts
  • Thicker plates
I'm not sure about the order of the last two items on the list.

Now if you somehow got your hands on hard-coated MakerSlide and replaced the V-wheels with steel ones (difficult, as they aren't available in the same diameter as the plastic V-wheels), it may be worth reinforcing the plates.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

cvoinescu
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Re: Custom Plates

Post by cvoinescu » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:50 pm

Forgot to say the main thing: the thick plates are bloody impressive! :D
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

roberlin
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:12 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Re: Custom Plates

Post by roberlin » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:27 am

1/4" steel. Awesome!!
I wouldn't worry about the weight. It'll probably just help dampen the vibrations ;-)

For the most part I agree with Cat's list, with the exception of the 1/8" aluminum standard plate.
I think I can see mine flex significantly (who knows maybe an optical illusion).

jrsteensen
Posts: 118
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Re: Custom Plates

Post by jrsteensen » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:27 am

cvoinescu wrote:I hate to burst your bubble, but the plates contribute very little to the flex. Most of it is due to the V-wheels (bearings, mostly, and the plastic part). Anyway, 0.25" is waaay overkill. In my opinion, this is the decreasing order of effectiveness of the modifications:
  • Dual Y drive
  • Dual X rail
    • X carriage reinforced with, say, extrusion between the two plates, instead of relying only on the X wheel bolts
    • the two X rails 20-30mm apart and rigidly coupled together, e.g. sandwiching between them some standard extrusion and bolted together along the length
  • Moving the Z wheels further apart, i.e. replacing the standard plate with a taller one
  • (for a long machine) Mid-span supports for the Y rails, and/or doubling it with standard extrusion bolted along the length
  • Moving the Z leadscrew to the side to reduce the length (and hence flex) of the Z wheel bolts
  • Thicker plates
I'm not sure about the order of the last two items on the list.

Now if you somehow got your hands on hard-coated MakerSlide and replaced the V-wheels with steel ones (difficult, as they aren't available in the same diameter as the plastic V-wheels), it may be worth reinforcing the plates.
We are thinking much alike. I am planning on the dual Y drive, dual X rail, Y mid span reinforcement (still have some design concepts to finish - I have a few but I'm just not happy with them yet.) I will stiffen the Z-axis at some point as well. And when i was refering to flex above, I was referring to any flex in the plates. ;) I'm using some beefy NEMA 24 motors, so this was to help support the weight of those. The wheels are definately my limiting factor, and I'm considering having some custom ones turned with the same dimensions. I may have the opportunity to hard coat the existing makerslide, but I'm not really a finish expert, so I don't know if you can hard anodize after they have been anodized/chem filmed. (Or are the makerslides raw....I haven't looked too closely.)

cvoinescu
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Re: Custom Plates

Post by cvoinescu » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:00 am

MakerSlide from Inventables is clear anodized. I am pretty sure you can't hard coat on top of that, and it's a difficult process that requires a refrigerated tank, as far as I know.
Proud owner of ShapeOko #709, eShapeOko #0, and of store.amberspyglass.co.uk

roberlin
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Re: Custom Plates

Post by roberlin » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:34 pm

If you want to get it hardcoated, I think the anodizer will strip the pre-existing anodization (you should warn them, though).

But, as Cat says, hardcoating is not DIY. It may be that the most extensive discussion of this (as far as makerslide is concerned) is in Bart's "plasma cutter" thread at the buildlog.net forums. In particular he gives the name of the company that does his.
There are nontrivial minimums involved. Maybe you could get a group hardcoating together in the for sale section. Also, rumor has it (and I had Zach confirm it at some point, but plans do change so who knows) that inventables will be offering hardcoated makerslide within a few months (and there is always the forthcoming openrail, or the standard hardened steel v-rails if you don't mind shelling out $10/ft).

jrsteensen
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:29 pm

Re: Custom Plates

Post by jrsteensen » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:25 pm

roberlin wrote:If you want to get it hardcoated, I think the anodizer will strip the pre-existing anodization (you should warn them, though).

But, as Cat says, hardcoating is not DIY. It may be that the most extensive discussion of this (as far as makerslide is concerned) is in Bart's "plasma cutter" thread at the buildlog.net forums. In particular he gives the name of the company that does his.
There are nontrivial minimums involved. Maybe you could get a group hardcoating together in the for sale section. Also, rumor has it (and I had Zach confirm it at some point, but plans do change so who knows) that inventables will be offering hardcoated makerslide within a few months (and there is always the forthcoming openrail, or the standard hardened steel v-rails if you don't mind shelling out $10/ft).
I work in the aerospace/defense industry on the engineering side and one of our prototype machine shops offers to do little personal projects for us...It's not something I would try DIY.... but good info, thanks guys!

WillAdams
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Re: Custom Plates

Post by WillAdams » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:32 am

cvoinescu wrote:In my opinion, this is the decreasing order of effectiveness of the modifications:
  • Dual Y drive
  • Dual X rail
    • X carriage reinforced with, say, extrusion between the two plates, instead of relying only on the X wheel bolts
    • the two X rails 20-30mm apart and rigidly coupled together, e.g. sandwiching between them some standard extrusion and bolted together along the length
  • Moving the Z wheels further apart, i.e. replacing the standard plate with a taller one
  • (for a long machine) Mid-span supports for the Y rails, and/or doubling it with standard extrusion bolted along the length
  • Moving the Z leadscrew to the side to reduce the length (and hence flex) of the Z wheel bolts
  • Thicker plates
I'm not sure about the order of the last two items on the list.

Now if you somehow got your hands on hard-coated MakerSlide and replaced the V-wheels with steel ones (difficult, as they aren't available in the same diameter as the plastic V-wheels), it may be worth reinforcing the plates.
I took the liberty of copy-pasting the above to make an ``Upgrades Overview'' page on the wiki --- could we add it as the first link in the Upgrades section in the Sidebar?

William
Shapeoko 3XL #0006 w/Makita RT0701 Router w/0.125″ and ¼″ Elaire precision collets
Nomad 883 Pro #596 (bamboo)

Hans
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:19 am
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Custom Plates

Post by Hans » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:53 am

Those are some nice plates! You could make a really stiff machine with those. Make sure you give the Y-axis continuous support if you extend the machine, though: all that extra weight could cause significant flex in unsupported makerslide.
Shapeoko #1,123

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